Bonds begins HOF campaign

OPS is a far more effective metrici for evaluating a player than batting avg, which considers a HR the same as a single. Now that is a flawed stat.

 

TP, Garvey put up some monster and consistent numbers during that time. No argument there. But as a hitter, he wasn't in Carew's class.

 

actually, in that time frame, if i were starting a team, i'd pick garvey.

 

So Carew earned most of his regard with his batting average, but you want to toss out OPS?

I stand by my point. You are going by feel and others here are actually thinking.

 

The first question is an interesting one since those arguing against Bagwell seem content to ignore that he played much of his career in an extreme pitcher's park. I believe the answer to your question is yes, but it still doesn't make up for the huge difference in the power numbers for those two players.

I'm not denying that Bagwell played in a better era for hitters. I'm denying that it was a big enough difference to close a very large gap between him and Carew.

 

well fuck bobby grich for even turning this into a conversation, then.

 

Now, you want to talk about a real Hall of Fame second baseman ... [/ducking]


(For the record, I don't think Grich should get in. But he should at least be in the discussion.)

 

Maybe the Hall of Fame should create a steroid era wing and put any players that played during that era (early 90s to mid 2000s?) into that section -- regardless if they were suspicious of using enhancers, were found guilty of using them or didn't use any at all. Then you can put Bonds, Clemens and others in the HOF who might be seen as worthy regardless if they used.

It wouldn't be perfect and I'm sure some ballplayers wouldn't want to be put there if they were clean, however they still played in that era and competed against players that cheated. I just believe something has to be done to recognize the era otherwise tough decisions will be even tougher.

I'm not yet eligible for a Hall of Fame vote yet but if I manage to stay in the business long enough to get one, that would certainly help with decisions on players like Bonds, Clemens, A-Rod, etc.

I've talked to a couple baseball writers that have HOF votes and based on what I've heard, I'd be very surprised if Bonds/Clemens are first ballot Hall of Famers.

 

Ha. Nothing wrong with the conversation. I still haven't seen a compelling argument that Carew was as good as Bagwell. I've seen a lot of vague ideas and steroid accusations masked as talk about the era, but that's about it.

 

So should we have a Segregation Era wing of the HOF, too?

I'm sure some ballplayers wouldn't want to be put there if they weren't racist. But, you know ...

 

for my money, if i were starting an expansion team and i had to pick between a young bagwell or a young carew, i'd take carew if i'm playing him at second base.

 

And I'll take the superior defender and overall hitter, which would be Bagwell.