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Bonds, the HR chase & the race issue

Discussion in 'Sports and News' started by EStreetJoe, May 7, 2007.

  1. RokSki

    RokSki New Member

    Nice to see Red Light Curt weighed in on this today on WEEI. We were all holding our breath waiting for you, Schill.
     
  2. creamora

    creamora Member

    The standard of proof the Chronicle has regarding the testimony of Bonds is very weak. If you reread their article which contains information from the Bonds transcript, you will see that nothing directly attributed to Bonds is incriminating in any way. The two Chronicle reporters painted a picture with their narrative that is inaccurate and misleading. Bonds said nothing that was incriminating. If what the two Chronicle reporters suggested in their article were true, then Bonds would have been indicted already. In short, the two Chronicle reporters' article does not provide an accurate representation of Bonds' transcript.
     
  3. The Big Ragu

    The Big Ragu Moderator Staff Member

    Ah, the old, "I'm calling bullshit" rebuttal. I didn't realize I was trying to lie to you about about anything. All I did was point out something factual: hitters were the ones shattering home run records in the 90s and pitchers weren't breaking any records (in fact, they were looking worse than ever because of all the juiced-up hitters). That was in response to your assertion that any advantage hitters had was offset by pitchers using... when most people around baseball believe the opposite--a guy built like the incredible hulk swinging a bat that looks like a toothpick in his hands benefits way more than the middle reliever who now throws 92 instead of 88. The steroidal hitter hits moonshots. A guy throwing 92 is still hittable for a major league hitter. But if calling bullshit or pulling out the old "you're just a hater" card works for you, knock yourself out.

    There are a number of factors that might have contributed to a home run surge in baseball. You didn't mention expansion watering down pitching and a tighter strike zone... Although it didn't seem all that smart to throw in "the fact guys are bigger, faster and stronger," when they are bigger, faster and stronger mostly due to PEDs (Yes, training methods have improved, but nope, nothing players do now is a quantum leap over what was known about conditioning 15 years ago).

    As for the rest of your screed, it's not worth responding to. Be convinced about whatever you want to be convinced of. Be an ostrich for all I care. McGwire, Bonds, Sosa (and a host of lesser players who didn't shatter home run records all at once, but did overexceed their limitations thanks to substance help) were more the product of performance-enhancing drugs than any other factors. And if you really believe that Bonds hasn't pumped himself full of more steroids and growth hormone than a fat lady loading up at an all-you-can-eat-buffet, so be it. I really have no interest in convincing you of the obvious.
     
  4. GB-Hack

    GB-Hack Active Member

    If someone could cue up the right photo.....Schilling runs his mouth on Bonds.

    http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2007/baseball/mlb/05/08/schilling.bonds/index.html

    You know the photo I mean.
     
  5. RokSki

    RokSki New Member

    It should be noted that ESPN Radio, in reporting on Schilling's comments about Bonds, is noting that Bonds never admitted to using steroids publicly. At least they're getting it correct, unlike Schilling.
     
  6. D-3 Fan

    D-3 Fan Well-Known Member

    Bob Coasts, for what's it worth, said this when he spoke at Drake several weeks ago:

    "You know there is, without a doubt, circumstancial and damning evidence from the book "Game of Shadows." However, critics continue to say that 'we need to see the actual evidence.' What do you mean actual evidence? LOOK AT HIM! It doesn't take a scientist to figure out how dramatically he has morphed into something that average non-athletes and athletes at his age can't possibly do. That is not a matter of opinion. That is a matter of FACT."

    That book is as graphic and close to describing what the fuck was going on in not only Barry's locker room, but damn there every locker room in baseball. You don't go from being scrawny to Lou Fergino in a week.

    I haven't read or analyzed the numbers that ABC and ESPN gathered up, but I wholeheartedly agree with Tony K. and Wilbon's take on it today on PTI: anytime someone puts out something about race, you are guaranteed to get a large response and a divisive response as well. Personally, I said this in the past about Bonds: the fucker don't give a shit about anyone, white or black, except himself. He wouldn't give us the time of day if we were in pre-school tugging his pants and politely asking him. Anyone black who is rooting for him, I can only pray for him. 'Cause hell hath no fury and I will never recognize that record when Bonds surpasses it. It's tainted.

    Whatever # of people they surveyed (or # of blacks they asked) hardly makes a dent. Go ask 100,000 people, not 800. That's not a good representation of the citizens of this nation.
     
  7. creamora

    creamora Member

    RokSki,

    Good point. Most posters here repeatedly say that Bonds has admitted to using "the clear and the cream" and this is simply untrue. People here routinely act like his socalled admission is fact. This is a result of the very misleading article written by the two Chronicle reporters. The sad part is that they reportedly had access to Bonds' transcript, so they knew full well that what they wrote was misleading. Yes, I belive that it was intentional. They took Bonds' statements which were not incriminating whatsoever and attempted to distort the truth. What's amazing is how other sports journailists have perpetuated the misleading information.
     
  8. Flying Headbutt

    Flying Headbutt Moderator Staff Member

    Cream, two things. Does that mean that Bonds was too trusting of those around him?

    Also, I sent you a private message earlier today about something completely unrelated to Bonds. Just wanted some input.
     
  9. boots

    boots New Member

    Truth is there may be something to what Barry is saying in regards to race. Unfortunately, until this steroid situation is resolved to the satisfaction of the public or to the media members that control the public perception, not many will listen to what he is saying.
     
  10. The Big Ragu

    The Big Ragu Moderator Staff Member

    creamora, Forget what he has admitted. Do you have any doubts that he has pumped himself full of steroids and HGH?

    Does any of that knowledge of stuff the rest of us don't have that you so often point out, suggest (or prove) to you that Bonds juiced himself full of all kinds of things? Does the tape recording of Greg Anderson talking about all the stuff Bonds used that was reported by the SF Chronicle (and I believe he was talking about 2001 to 2003, years in which not even FB would suggest that steroids were somehow legal) persuade you that the guy doped and has lied about it every time he's denied it? Does the quote from that tape of Anderson saying that what he was doing with Bonds was undetectable make you think that Bonds is guilty? Does the visual evidence--LOOK AT BONDS--suggest that he he's doped up beyond belief?

    Because this argument is dumb as shit. Everyone KNOWS he used... it doesn't take Polaroid shots or an admission (why the hell would he confess, when he has continually lied about it and he is poised to claim a record and the acclaim that goes with it, that he'd lose if he admitted he cheated?) for anyone with a set of eyes and a brain to know that he used.
     
  11. Hammer Pants

    Hammer Pants Active Member

    In no point in this paragraph did you mention the real reason people hate Barry. He is an asshole. Who cheated. He cheated the game to pass a BLACK MAN.

    There is racism in the world, but Bonds is not an example of it.
     
  12. Big Chee

    Big Chee Active Member

    What the hell do you mean? He may or may not have cheated, but the one sided media scrutiny is the same old routine run by the white male dominated media that have their minds made up automatically criminalizing black men.

    Those two reporters for the Chronicle took that shyt all the way to the bank.
     
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