Budget talks: This is getting nasty

The Tea Partiers in Congress ARE politicians you boob!

 

But the Tea Party is not just politicians. Otherwise, how would they get elected? Those were average Joes and Janes at those first rallies. The politicians were out there wondering "Gee, is this a constituency we can manipulate?"

 

And I'm sure Mrs. C, like all the rest of the tea partiers, was out there protesting for the first seven or so years of that past decade.

Oh wait, no?

 

There are average Joe's and Jane's who vote for Democrats and traditional Republicans too. What, pray tell, is your point?

 

The tea party at that time was still for the most part being fooled into thinking a conservative was running the White House. Drudge has just about convinced me he was a true spawn of "New World Order" Bush I.

 

This is the problem. I do think the creation of homeland security and the "security state" along with being the world police of terror is what accelerated the debt. But somehow it comes across as a "liberal" issue. These were expansions the far left were very much against.

From what one spends on income tax, more than half goes to defense spending in one way, shape or form (including benefits for post-military people). This has long been a concern of the left.

However, the tea party does not emphasize this, outside of some hard-core Ron Paul libertarians. Liberals are to blame and Republicans that do not fall in line are looked at as traitors.

 

Homeland Security is a waste of time when it's connected to the wasteful searches at airports of grandmas and babies, when our CIA and FBI should be strong enough enforcers. I'll agree with this. I see nothing but bureaucracy out of this measure.

 

No, it's not. It's only libertarian if you define libertarian as not actually wanting to pay for what you want the government to do. And it's hardly libertarian when it comes to things like wanting the government to protect us from gays, or hippie pot smokers.

 

Gee, I can't think of anyone.

 

What is the evidence for this?

Has Obama specified a single cut he's willing to make? What entitlement cuts was he willing to make as part of the "Grand Bargain"?

And, what Democrats were going to go along with them? Has Nancy Pelosi agreed to entitlement cuts? Has Charles Rangel? What about Harry Reid and Chuck Schumer? What cuts have they agreed to?

Let's say Republicans had agreed to tax increases in exchange for cuts to entitlements. How many votes would Nancy Pelosi deliver for the vote?

Do you expect Republicans to not only vote for tax increases, but to do it with no Democratic cover? Because that's not happening. And, I can't envision any members of the Progressive Caucus or the Congressional Black Caucus voting to cut entitlements no matter how good the deal is.

The criticisms of the Republicans here is fair. But it's not fair to act like the Democrats have bent over to compromise here. Their caucus is just as partisan.

Also, if the cuts only appear in out years, and the tax increases start immediately, how are you going to guaranty the spending cuts ever really come to fruition?

Unless you institute a balanced budget amendment or some statutory ratio of revenue to spending, Republicans don't believe the spending cuts will ever happen. We've seen this movie before.

 

Paul Ryan ... voice of reason?

http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/nation/la-na-debt-talks-20110716,0,3724140.story

 

I think the genesis of the party is libertarian. I think it has evolved into being populist conservative and only as libertarian as populist/conservatives are libertarian. But it definitely started with libertarian objections to spending, yes.