Budget talks: This is getting nasty

Boom_70 · Aug 6, 2011

Obama administration can spin this however they want. The fact remains that our triple A rating is gone. Hopefully it's a wake up call.

S & P is going to cost Obsma a 2nd term.

Armchair_QB · Aug 6, 2011

Ben_Hecht said:

Baron Scicluna said:

YankeeFan said:

Baron Scicluna said:

YankeeFan said:

Government "regulations" about to shut down the artisanal ice cream industry in Illinois.

Today Swanberg’s Nice Cream — on offer at local Whole Foods and farmers markets — is considered a star of Chicago’s rich and beloved artisanal ice cream scene, one that could be shut down entirely by state rules, she recently learned.

She says that a couple of weeks ago a representative from the Illinois Department of Public Health came to Logan Square Kitchen and informed her she’d have to shut down if she did not get something called "a dairy license."

Swanberg and others in her field had operated for years now without ever hearing of such a thing and, indeed, they say, the City’s Department of Business Affairs and Consumer Protection, to whom they applied for business licenses, never informed them they would need one to operate.

1. "Work out of our own space. Currently we work out of the Logan Square Kitchen."
2. "Have our product tested once a month for bacterial levels."
3. "Change all of our packaging and labels to meet state standards."
4. "Purchase a pasteurizer, which from what the state tells me will be about $40,000 or use a pre-made ice cream mix."

Swanberg says that the IDPH officer who visited told her that her ice cream probably wouldn’t pass the bacteria tests if she continued to use fresh strawberries. Instead the officer suggested she use "strawberry syrup," Swanberg said.

IDPH spokesperson Melanie Arnold said that it isn’t illegal to use real strawberries but that IDPH “does not encourage it simply because when you try and clean a strawberry to make sure it doesn’t have any bacteria, it kind of deteriorates.”

The department’s Dairy Equipment Specialist, Don Wilding, said that other ice cream producers use irradiated strawberries. He says look good but he can’t vouch for the taste.

http://www.chicagotribune.com/features/food/stew/chi-local-ice-cream-makers-could-be-shut-down-by-state-20110805,0,477342.story
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And for every one of these ridiculous regulations, I could counter with a dozen regulations, or more, about ... mine safety ... Or getting paid for the time you worked, including overtime (even though Bush tried to get rid of that in 2002) ... Or regulations to stop factories from poisioning rivers ... or regulations that make trucking firms give their truckers 8 hours off the road, so you know, they can actually sleep ... or ...

I can go on. For every ridiculous story of a cop shutting down a kids' lemonade stand, there's plenty of stories throughout this country's history of businesses fighting regulations that are to the benefit of the public and the workers.
Click to expand...

I'm not sure how pointing out valuable regulations is somehow a defense for unnecessary, unfair, burdensome regulations.

No one is saying that all regulations should go away.
Click to expand...

Oh no? How about getting rid of the EPA?

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2011/07/27/999482/-Republicans-Want-to-Gut-Job-Killing-Regulations-

http://thinkprogress.org/green/2011/07/27/280925/gop-2012-epa/

Or again, how about those pesky "overtime" regulations? Guess what? The GOP wants to get rid of them too, under the guise of "Reform for the 21st Century"

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/07/14/fair-labor-standards-act-reform_n_898332.html
Click to expand...

You can't rest when you're playing defense against these vermin. They're relentless, in the service of their masters. They love the smell and taste of shoe polish.
Click to expand...

Vermin? Really?

So much for changing the tone. Gabby Giffords weeps.

Inky_Wretch · Aug 6, 2011

CarltonBanks said:

J Staley said:

printdust said:

J Staley said:

Tea Party wanted change and they got it. Unprecedented.
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Obama campaigned for change and he delivered.
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Whether it's meaningful or not, S&P said for the U.S. to keep it's credit rating it had to raise the debt ceiling and come up with a viable plan for dealing with long term debt. A big reason that plan is garbage is because the Tea Party geniuses thought that an agreement to raise the debt ceiling was a compromise on their part, instead of seeing it as a short-term necessity -- as any rational person would.

To me it sounds like the Tea Party wanted the AAA rating to fall; if they are arguing against one of the provisions that allows the U.S. to keep it, they clearly don't care (though it's certainly possible they didn't comprehend that going in).

Every legislator deserves blame for this, as well as citizens who let this happen. Obama's included in that mix. But it's very clear to me that the Tea Party specifically, or the government's general sharp right turn led to the score drop.
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The Tea Party's exists to champion LESS government spending. Not more. If the Tea Party had its wishes the rating would NEVER have been downgraded because we would not be spending so much more than we take in. And you want them to share the blame?
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S&P had no problem laying some of the blame on the tea party. In addition to mentioning entitlement spending, it talked about the unwillingness of US politicians to raise taxes. Including this ...

Compared with previous projections, our revised base case scenario now assumes that the 2001 and 2003 tax cuts, due to expire by the end of 2012, remain in place. We have changed our assumption on this because the majority of Republicans in Congress continue to resist any measure that would raise
revenues, a position we believe Congress reinforced by passing the act.
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Every cook in the kitchen had a hand in this mess, including the tea partiers.

BrianGriffin · Aug 6, 2011

Alma said:

CarltonBanks said:

I heard today that if we taxed the top 8,100 earners in this country, all those making over $10 million a year, at a 100% rate we could pay for 18 days worth of government spending at its current rate. So, just over two weeks. What are we going to do for the other 50 weeks in the year? Kind of makes the "tax the rich" mindset seem a little foolish, no?
Click to expand...

Another great adventure in false equivalency.

Letting Bush era tax rates expire = soaking the rich. Yep. What a disaster!
Click to expand...

Evidently, the dark ages lasted up until the Bush tax cuts. The nation muddled along until that moment and then, of course, we began our rapid descent.

But that's another story.

BrianGriffin · Aug 6, 2011

Boom_70 said:

Alma said:

Boom_70 said:

Alma said:

Poll stuff

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/08/05/us/politics/05poll.html?_r=1&smid=tw-nytimespolitics&seid=auto

Approval rate of how different sectors handled the debt crisis

Congressional Republicans 28 percent
Congressional Democrats 34 percents
Obama 46 percent

And this nugget:

"Sixty-three percent of those polled said that they support raising taxes on households that earn more than $250,000 a year, as President Obama has sought to do — including majorities of Democrats (80 percent), independents (61 percent) and Republicans (52 percent)."

Nearly a supermajority.
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Just bring this poll back up. Just shows how The Times can slant things when they want.

100 people surveyed - 81 with incomes under $100,000/ 13 with incomes over and 6 decliners.

Of course the majority are going to say yes to higher tax for those with incomes over $250,000.

Did not see breakdown either of how many considered themselves Republican/ Democrat/ Indy.
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That's an accurate reflection of American demographics, Boom. What percentage of Americans do you think make over 100,000?

It's about 7%. And 20% if we're talking households.
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True but it still does not mitigate how imperfect this poll is. Off course most are going to say yes to higher taxes to those with income over $250,000.
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And this is a problem how?

Starman · Aug 6, 2011

Baron Scicluna said:

Oh no? How about getting rid of the EPA?

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2011/07/27/999482/-Republicans-Want-to-Gut-Job-Killing-Regulations-

http://thinkprogress.org/green/2011/07/27/280925/gop-2012-epa/

Or again, how about those pesky "overtime" regulations? Guess what? The GOP wants to get rid of them too, under the guise of "Reform for the 21st Century"

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/07/14/fair-labor-standards-act-reform_n_898332.html
Click to expand...

Don't forget the motherfuckers also want to get rid of minimum wage and child labor laws, too.

Good profit-making bidnessmen in Bangladesh can hire 8-year-old coolies to work for 10 cents a day and a cup of rotten rice, American bidnesses won't be able to compete in our global economy until they can too.

Get guvvment out of biddness and unleash the miracles of the marketplace.

Oh. And abortion. Oh, and we need lots more Jeezuss too.

Ben_Hecht · Aug 6, 2011

BrianGriffin said:

Alma said:

CarltonBanks said:

I heard today that if we taxed the top 8,100 earners in this country, all those making over $10 million a year, at a 100% rate we could pay for 18 days worth of government spending at its current rate. So, just over two weeks. What are we going to do for the other 50 weeks in the year? Kind of makes the "tax the rich" mindset seem a little foolish, no?
Click to expand...

Another great adventure in false equivalency.

Letting Bush era tax rates expire = soaking the rich. Yep. What a disaster!
Click to expand...

Evidently, the dark ages lasted up until the Bush tax cuts. The nation muddled along until that moment and then, of course, we began our rapid descent.

But that's another story.
Click to expand...

But Peggy Noonan luuuuuuuvs Fredo!

You ever see a Prez build up a stable of more female enablers? W retired the trophy in that department.

Ben_Hecht · Aug 6, 2011

Armchair_QB said:

Ben_Hecht said:

Baron Scicluna said:

YankeeFan said:

Baron Scicluna said:

YankeeFan said:

Government "regulations" about to shut down the artisanal ice cream industry in Illinois.

Today Swanberg’s Nice Cream — on offer at local Whole Foods and farmers markets — is considered a star of Chicago’s rich and beloved artisanal ice cream scene, one that could be shut down entirely by state rules, she recently learned.

She says that a couple of weeks ago a representative from the Illinois Department of Public Health came to Logan Square Kitchen and informed her she’d have to shut down if she did not get something called "a dairy license."

Swanberg and others in her field had operated for years now without ever hearing of such a thing and, indeed, they say, the City’s Department of Business Affairs and Consumer Protection, to whom they applied for business licenses, never informed them they would need one to operate.

1. "Work out of our own space. Currently we work out of the Logan Square Kitchen."
2. "Have our product tested once a month for bacterial levels."
3. "Change all of our packaging and labels to meet state standards."
4. "Purchase a pasteurizer, which from what the state tells me will be about $40,000 or use a pre-made ice cream mix."

Swanberg says that the IDPH officer who visited told her that her ice cream probably wouldn’t pass the bacteria tests if she continued to use fresh strawberries. Instead the officer suggested she use "strawberry syrup," Swanberg said.

IDPH spokesperson Melanie Arnold said that it isn’t illegal to use real strawberries but that IDPH “does not encourage it simply because when you try and clean a strawberry to make sure it doesn’t have any bacteria, it kind of deteriorates.”

The department’s Dairy Equipment Specialist, Don Wilding, said that other ice cream producers use irradiated strawberries. He says look good but he can’t vouch for the taste.

http://www.chicagotribune.com/features/food/stew/chi-local-ice-cream-makers-could-be-shut-down-by-state-20110805,0,477342.story
Click to expand...

Click to expand...

And for every one of these ridiculous regulations, I could counter with a dozen regulations, or more, about ... mine safety ... Or getting paid for the time you worked, including overtime (even though Bush tried to get rid of that in 2002) ... Or regulations to stop factories from poisioning rivers ... or regulations that make trucking firms give their truckers 8 hours off the road, so you know, they can actually sleep ... or ...

I can go on. For every ridiculous story of a cop shutting down a kids' lemonade stand, there's plenty of stories throughout this country's history of businesses fighting regulations that are to the benefit of the public and the workers.
Click to expand...

I'm not sure how pointing out valuable regulations is somehow a defense for unnecessary, unfair, burdensome regulations.

No one is saying that all regulations should go away.
Click to expand...

Oh no? How about getting rid of the EPA?

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2011/07/27/999482/-Republicans-Want-to-Gut-Job-Killing-Regulations-

http://thinkprogress.org/green/2011/07/27/280925/gop-2012-epa/

Or again, how about those pesky "overtime" regulations? Guess what? The GOP wants to get rid of them too, under the guise of "Reform for the 21st Century"

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/07/14/fair-labor-standards-act-reform_n_898332.html
Click to expand...

You can't rest when you're playing defense against these vermin. They're relentless, in the service of their masters. They love the smell and taste of shoe polish.
Click to expand...

Vermin? Really?

So much for changing the tone. Gabby Giffords weeps.
Click to expand...

Being so relentlessly anti-union (and of course, anti-labor)? Yeah -- vermin. They're not looking to do anything constructive -- they're just trying to kick working people in the teeth. They wouldn't
know what shared sacrifice is on a bet, and show no inclination towards finding out.

YankeeFan · Aug 6, 2011

I just want my strawberry ice cream.

I actually saw it at Whole Foods today. $8.99 a pint.

I got Ben & Jerry's instead.

Ben_Hecht · Aug 6, 2011

YankeeFan said:

I just want my strawberry ice cream.

I actually saw it at Whole Foods today. $8.99 a pint.

I got Ben & Jerry's instead.
Click to expand...

$8.99's pretty dear. Edy's or B&J should serve.

amraeder · Aug 6, 2011

Boom_70 said:

Obama administration can spin this however they want. The fact remains that our triple A rating is gone. Hopefully it's a wake up call.

S & P is going to cost Obsma a 2nd term.
Click to expand...

The lack of jobs MIGHT cost Obama a second term. .... If the Republicans can nominate anyone the general public finds palatable.

This S&P stuff? Won't cost Obama a thing. Because the market will just ignore it -- which, along with the two other ratings agencies keeping the US at AAA, will simply reflect poorly back on S&P, not Obama.

mrbio · Aug 6, 2011

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Favorite Ice Cream Flavor? Strawberry.

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Budget talks: This is getting nasty

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