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Budget talks: This is getting nasty

Discussion in 'Sports and News' started by printdust, Jul 13, 2011.

Page 177 of 214
  1. 93Devil

    93Devil Well-Known Member

    No, but you would hope that the people that built stores 4,5,6,7 and 8 would have noticed that these stores were not needed. Now these stores are not selling jack shit but still have to pay off the debt on their buildings.

    It's like building too many bowling alleys in a town. There are but so many bowlers.
     
    93Devil, Aug 9, 2011
    #2113
  2. 93Devil

    93Devil Well-Known Member


    The businesses that are getting destroyed are the "wants" business.

    I need a coffee, but I want Starbucks. I make my own at home or get it at Micky Ds.
    I need a pizza, but I want a Uno's. I goto the cheap place around the corner.
    I need to go grocery shopping, but I want to shop at Whole Foods and not Wal Mart.
    I need to do something this weeknd, but I want to play golf at the $75 a round course. I do something cheaper.
    I need to take a vacation, but I want to fly to Florida. I drive someplace local instead.
    I need to know what is going on, but I want a daily newspaper. I watch the free news on TV and get the Sunday paper for the coupons.
     
    93Devil, Aug 9, 2011
    #2114
  3. YankeeFan

    YankeeFan Well-Known Member

    This is not at all what's happening.
     
    YankeeFan, Aug 9, 2011
    #2115
  4. The Big Ragu

    The Big Ragu Moderator Staff Member

    1) Consumer spending doesn't account for all of our economic activity.
    2) There is an old saying, "In a recession, cash is king." You don't spend if you are worried about your financial future.
    3) We had an asset bubble pop in 2008, in which America was overleveraged. That was businesses, it was consumers, it was our government. The aggregate reaction has been to become way more conservative and save. Consumers and businesses have done it naturally -- they can't just print money to put off having to live in the real world. Our government is grappling with it right now.

    The way to deal with the slow economy that isn't being helped by lack of spending, is let the economy sort it out for itself. The bubble that popped was created by government fiscal and monetary policy. If only they would step aside. And let the economic cycles take control of themselves. Eventually people will oversave, and money will become so abundant (IF they avoid tinkering by running the printing presses 24/7 by trying to make it happen in a false way the way they have been and continue to) that people will eventually see opportunities to put their money to work better through investment. You have to let this play out, though, and right now that means facing an inevitable economic malaise that has people hoarding cash to protect themselves against the future. That has to pass through.

    Economies are cyclical. We have made the cycles longer and more drastic by sticking our hands into things we have no control over, and with unintended consequences spurred by their intervention. We created huge asset bubbles for a long time, overheated economies that created more than a decade of false prosperity, and then when they popped, the payback was the economic hardship we are facing now.

    If we let our economies steer themselves, we'd still run through up cycles and down cycles (and even recessions), but the ups and downs wouldn't be as violent as what our central bank and legislators have created with their incomprehensible mix of fiscal and monetary policy, which is mostly done due to short-sighted motives. They are politicized and clinging to power, so they always try to create false economic growth, extend it as long as possible (even though that creates hard landings and longer down economic cycles), and they do that by cheapening our money through interest rate policy and buying back the debt our legislators create, which inflates away the debt we run, which helped create the overheated economy in the first place -- until the debt becomes a problem (what we soon face) that limits economic growth.

    Tell them to step away. They (the Federal Reserve and the Federal government) always make things worse.
     
    The Big Ragu, Aug 9, 2011
    #2116
  5. 93Devil

    93Devil Well-Known Member

    So where did it go?

    Where is all the money from the 1998-2008?
     
    93Devil, Aug 9, 2011
    #2117
  6. 93Devil

    93Devil Well-Known Member

    Ragu, they stepped away and let the banks loan money to freaking everybody. The banks got gready, and we are where we are today.
     
    93Devil, Aug 9, 2011
    #2118
  7. YankeeFan

    YankeeFan Well-Known Member

    What are you talking about? Our problems don't stem from people buying coffee at at Starbucks instead of McDonalds or because they bough 8 fishing poles when they only needed one.

    The housing bubble kicked this off. People bought houses they couldn't afford. They bought then with mortgages they didn't understand. Mortgages they could only pay off if the house rose in price.

    They also bought housing as an investment, expecting to flip it for a quick profit. Condos sprung up in Florida, Vegas, the South Loop of Chicago. They were scooped up by investors, not prospective owners.

    And, the Government spent $1.40 for every $1.00 they took in.

    They also didn't blow it at Starbucks or Bass Pro Shop.

    They spent it on two wars, Social Security, Medicare, Medicaid, a prescription drug plan, unemployment insurance extensions, bank bailouts, etc., etc., etc.
     
    YankeeFan, Aug 9, 2011
    #2119
  8. Ben_Hecht

    Ben_Hecht Active Member

    The prevailing fascination with the deficit has been largely gassed up by the Hard Right and its fiscal angels to chain tons and tons of dead weight to the economy, so as to screw The Uppity One and put Him in His place.

    The righties didn't care that Ronnie and the Bushes spent like sailors on leave . . . hey, They were Their Boys, and took care of Their Benefactors.

    Damn straight the deficit's higher than is healthy. But the Big Money and their drooling, mouth-breathing tools didn't give a shit about that, so long as Fredo the Tool was naming jerkoff Business Uber Alles types as Supremes and to the open Circuit Court positions.

    I knew BO would do plenty of things I wouldn't like when he was elected. And he surely has. But the alternative remains better than electing some livingdead/incompetent ticket, and you'll be faced with some instant-replay variation of the serving of shit the GOP ran out there in '08, next year.
     
    Ben_Hecht, Aug 9, 2011
    #2120
  9. YankeeFan

    YankeeFan Well-Known Member

    The banks were encouraged and in some cases forced to increase their lending.

    Mergers were approved only on the condition that lending was increased.

    Banks were accused of racist lending practices. Home ownership programs were created by the government.

    Fannie Mae & Fraddy Mac also played a role.

    The housing bubble did not happen in spite of government precautions. It was spurred on by government policy and programs.
     
    YankeeFan, Aug 9, 2011
    #2121
  10. 93Devil

    93Devil Well-Known Member

    But it goes back to...

    I need a 1,600 square foot house, but I want a 4,000 square foot house. The bank is telling me I can afford the 4,000 square foot house, but I really cannot.

    My wife and I only used 60% of what we were approved for when we bought out current house. And I am not exactly RickStain in the tightwad department.
     
    93Devil, Aug 9, 2011
    #2122
  11. 93Devil

    93Devil Well-Known Member

    Bullshit

    I did not go to the County building to get my mortgage.
     
    93Devil, Aug 9, 2011
    #2123
  12. LongTimeListener

    LongTimeListener Well-Known Member

    This is like saying Circuit City closed down because of excessive shoplifters. No, YF, the banks created the money for themselves by selling their credit default swaps and collateralized debt obligations, then they went out and lured poor uneducated people into taking title on the houses because they needed more credit default swaps and CDOs, then they sold those, repeat cycle, repeat cycle, repeat cycle.

    It all started with deregulation and the combination of banking and investing.
     
    LongTimeListener, Aug 9, 2011
    #2124
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