Budget talks: This is getting nasty

YGBFKM · Aug 13, 2011

I think liberals are on the right track. We need to get serious and centralize the means of poduction.

Magic In The Night · Aug 13, 2011

YGBFKM said:

I think liberals are on the right track. We need to get serious and centralize the means of poduction.
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I'll make the strawberry ice cream!

Azrael · Aug 13, 2011

YGBFKM said:

I think liberals are on the right track. We need to get serious and centralize the means of poduction.
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Apple already controls the means of pod-uction.

YGBFKM · Aug 13, 2011

Magic In The Night said:

YGBFKM said:

I think liberals are on the right track. We need to get serious and centralize the means of poduction.
Click to expand...

I'll make the strawberry ice cream!
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Nope, everyone gets vanilla.

Magic In The Night · Aug 13, 2011

YGBFKM said:

Magic In The Night said:

YGBFKM said:

I think liberals are on the right track. We need to get serious and centralize the means of poduction.
Click to expand...

I'll make the strawberry ice cream!
Click to expand...

Nope, everyone gets vanilla.
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I like vanilla better anyway.

YGBFKM · Aug 13, 2011

I should have guessed.

The Big Ragu · Aug 13, 2011

Magic In The Night said:

Well look at this, a new green energy battery plant built with millions in investment from federal and state stimulus money. Maybe government does create jobs after all!

http://www.freep.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=2011108120396

Oh, and the reason people are in trouble financially has less to do with debt than with wages that have been cut or jobs lost altogether.
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The article said $468 million of public funds went into that place.

That was giving $468 million -- which we are paying for with debt -- to a hand-picked industry.

Demand creates jobs. Demand didn't build that factory.

So I have no idea if that factory is really meeting any real demand, or if it siphoned almost half a billion dollars out of our economy that could have gone to a more productive, demand-driven enterprise. What businesses never got a chance to thrive, because political cronyism gave Johnson Controls a half billion advantage that we are all paying for now? Until you can answer that one, I am not buying the "government creates jobs," thing.

Magic In The Night · Aug 15, 2011

The Big Ragu said:

Magic In The Night said:

Well look at this, a new green energy battery plant built with millions in investment from federal and state stimulus money. Maybe government does create jobs after all!

http://www.freep.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=2011108120396

Oh, and the reason people are in trouble financially has less to do with debt than with wages that have been cut or jobs lost altogether.
Click to expand...

The article said $468 million of public funds went into that place.

That was giving $468 million -- which we are paying for with debt -- to a hand-picked industry.

Demand creates jobs. Demand didn't build that factory.

So I have no idea if that factory is really meeting any real demand, or if it siphoned almost half a billion dollars out of our economy that could have gone to a more productive, demand-driven enterprise. What businesses never got a chance to thrive, because political cronyism gave Johnson Controls a half billion advantage that we are all paying for now? Until you can answer that one, I am not buying the "government creates jobs," thing.
Click to expand...

There is such a high demand for the Chevrolet Volt that one of our designers ordered one and can't get it for four months! So I'm guessing that they need batteries to put in those things.

Big Circus · Aug 15, 2011

CarltonBanks said:

YankeeFan said:

Awesome immigrant story, with a twist:

BEFORE dawn, when most New Yorkers are fast asleep, Isaac and Elizabeth Osei have already been working for hours. On a recent morning, Mr. Osei drove his wife from New Jersey to the half-abandoned outer blocks of Midtown Manhattan to oversee the 4:30 a.m. transfer of their fleet of 50 taxis. With Ms. Osei leading the way and a sliver of moon still hanging in the sky, they scouted three square blocks to make sure all of their taxis had been picked up by drivers. Then, over the screeches emanating from auto-body shops and the smell of gasoline wafting from a Hess station crammed with cabs, they surveyed their troubled taxis just as sunlight faintly appeared over Manhattan.

At 6 a.m., they drove to the Upper West Side, reconfigured the spare tires they keep in their trunk and picked up clothing, a mirror and a table, which a friend was donating to a charity drive organized by the Oseis. The couple, who are immigrants from Ghana, struggled to tie the mirror to the roof of their car, then drove back to their Chelsea office lined with worn-out wood paneling and faded carpeting.

By 7:30, Ms. Osei had taken her place in her thronelike office chair she is the president of Napasei Taxi Management Corporation, after all while Mr. Osei, who is vice president, took a more modest seat nearby. Then they prepared for the next 12 hours of fighting parking tickets, getting taxis inspected and helping drivers who came in to pick up their cash.

...

Mr. Osei saw Elizabeth Otolizz for the first time when she stopped to eat in his restaurant in the late 1980s and he pointed out that she had spilled okra on her blouse. She moved to New York in 1986 and worked as a home health nurse, a newspaper deliverywoman and a taxi driver. She spilled out stories about the celebrities she had met, like Snoop Dogg, and the times she had been beaten up by customers. She carried in her purse masses of wires that she used to make emergency taxi repairs.

When Mr. Osei went back to driving a taxi, he would occasionally spot Elizabeth at airport taxi stands and chat. Then, when he saw her driving her taxi, he would ask her for her phone number at stop lights. But Elizabeth, who was getting over a previous relationship, demurred.

In 1991, Mr. Oseis taxi medallion was about to fall into foreclosure, and Elizabeth offered to go into business with him. She borrowed $1,500 from an African grocery store owner and alternated with Mr. Osei driving his Chevy Caprice in 12-hour shifts to help pay off the loan. Soon, Elizabeth decided she was ready to take their friendship beyond a trade-off of taxi keys. In 1995, they wed in New Jersey, had two sons and slowly and steadily built a small taxi empire.

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/08/14/nyregion/isaac-osei-taxi-driver-in-new-york-and-chief-in-ghana.html?hp=&pagewanted=all
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The rest of the story is even better. They eventually moved back to Africa, but their son, the prince, snuck away with his servant and moved back to New York...looking to find his bride. He took a job as a mere janitor at a knockoff fast food restaurant and set out to find true love. It is an enchanting story. He had many battles, including against the evil heir to a hair treatment empire, but found his true love.
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THE ROYAL PENIS IS CLEAN!

Ben_Hecht · Aug 16, 2011

Magic In The Night said:

The Big Ragu said:

Magic In The Night said:

Well look at this, a new green energy battery plant built with millions in investment from federal and state stimulus money. Maybe government does create jobs after all!

http://www.freep.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=2011108120396

Oh, and the reason people are in trouble financially has less to do with debt than with wages that have been cut or jobs lost altogether.
Click to expand...

The article said $468 million of public funds went into that place.

That was giving $468 million -- which we are paying for with debt -- to a hand-picked industry.

Demand creates jobs. Demand didn't build that factory.

So I have no idea if that factory is really meeting any real demand, or if it siphoned almost half a billion dollars out of our economy that could have gone to a more productive, demand-driven enterprise. What businesses never got a chance to thrive, because political cronyism gave Johnson Controls a half billion advantage that we are all paying for now? Until you can answer that one, I am not buying the "government creates jobs," thing.
Click to expand...

There is such a high demand for the Chevrolet Volt that one of our designers ordered one and can't get it for four months! So I'm guessing that they need batteries to put in those things.
Click to expand...

A lot of people have a lot of courage, signing up for such an early generation of a relatively-new automotive technology . . .

dixiehack · Aug 16, 2011

$468 million is a rounding error to Uncle Sam. If we're spending that on r&d for something that could wean us off Middle Eastern oil, I'm way good with that.

The Big Ragu · Aug 16, 2011

Magic In The Night said:

The Big Ragu said:

Magic In The Night said:

Well look at this, a new green energy battery plant built with millions in investment from federal and state stimulus money. Maybe government does create jobs after all!

http://www.freep.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=2011108120396

Oh, and the reason people are in trouble financially has less to do with debt than with wages that have been cut or jobs lost altogether.
Click to expand...

The article said $468 million of public funds went into that place.

That was giving $468 million -- which we are paying for with debt -- to a hand-picked industry.

Demand creates jobs. Demand didn't build that factory.

So I have no idea if that factory is really meeting any real demand, or if it siphoned almost half a billion dollars out of our economy that could have gone to a more productive, demand-driven enterprise. What businesses never got a chance to thrive, because political cronyism gave Johnson Controls a half billion advantage that we are all paying for now? Until you can answer that one, I am not buying the "government creates jobs," thing.
Click to expand...

There is such a high demand for the Chevrolet Volt that one of our designers ordered one and can't get it for four months! So I'm guessing that they need batteries to put in those things.
Click to expand...

The point is, if the demand is as great as you say, we didn't need to rack up half a billion dollars of debt -- *I* am partially on the hook for -- to build that factory. If it is demand driven, that factory builds itself.

But if your "guess" is wrong, the cost is greater than $500 million. From what potentially productive, demand-driven areas of the economy did we just take half a billion dollars and destroy potential GDP? This is a zero sum game.

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Budget talks: This is getting nasty

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Budget talks: This is getting nasty

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