Budget talks: This is getting nasty

Not going to touch this one...

 

Azrael beat me to the answer. You can't take quotes and apply them as being universally true in every situation. Kennedy was wise to know that taxes were, at the time, detrimental to growth. Cutting them would spark the economy. When you are in a situation where taxes are low AND the economy is struggling, lowering them more may not be the answer.

Certainly the Bush tax cuts did NOT result in higher revenue.

 

True, but only against McCain. He endorsed Ron Paul. He supports a flat tax, is for the privatization of social security, is against universal healthcare and for limited government.

Certainly, he's not the most conventional conservative, but he certainly isn't liberal. And you've just been caught doing the tea-party thing: Anybody -- even people who identify themselves as conservative like Sullivan -- who isn't in lockstep is a "liberal." There's nothing liberal about Sullivan except his stance on homosexuality (he's gay).

 

Well, actually, you have been caught doing the Democrat thing. Show me where I called him a liberal. All I did was point out that he was not conservative and showed he was on a Forbes list of liberals. I did not in any way, shape or form do what you said I did (since he is not lockstep call him a liberal). You see, this is a great example of your side jumping to conclusions...you always assume the worst of Tea Party members, but never really bother to make sure your facts are straight.

 

Oh, OK. You just noted he's on a list of liberals and that he couldn't possibly be a fiscal conservative because he endorsed Obama (his reasons had to do with his libertarian arguments for getting out of Afghanistan and Iraq).

My bad :

 

What conclusion did you intend? BG pointed out that Sullivan, a fiscal conservative, called Republicans anarchists and clearly doesn't agree with the party's negotiation tactics. Your response was, to paraphrase, that he's not a real fiscal conservative because he went against one of the big tenets of conservatism.

 

My conclusion was that he is a RINO...far more moderate than conservative. There is quite a bit of grey area between the far left and the far right...and my conclusion was that Sullivan is more towards the left side of the spectrum than was being portrayed. Seriously, the "us vs. them" thing is out of hand. Do you understand the concept of moderates?

 

Of course. They're the people being turfed out of your party in their droves.

 

Basically, that's what I am. And when I see Sullivan's beliefs, I see a fiscal conservative (and that's what I called him).

That's relevant because this is a fiscal matter.

Really, he's more libertarian than anything. His defense of gay rights is a libertarian defense. His foreign policy objections to the wars (which is why he endorsed Obama as a way to end those conflicts) is libertarian. Of course, libertarian and conservative aren't synonymous. But fiscally, they are.

Moving on. Interesting take from Fred Bauer at David Frum's site (by the way if Frum were speaking for the mainstream of the GOP, it would make that party much more appealing to me). He presents a scenario where the tea partiers win, the projected scenarios of their budget take shape, the economy continues its tailspin and by 2014, we're right back in this same situation, only with Nancy Pelosi holding a large majority in the house and using it to force much larger tax increases than what are on the table now.
http://www.frumforum.com/author/FredB

 

14th Amendment option is not going to happen:

 

I think it could be used as an 11th hour -- like, 11:59 -- option, and a temporary measure at that.

But, by then, the damage would likely already be done in the financial markets. So its not a true viable option.

 

Perhaps the President could act unilaterally, but remember that the buyers of the newly issued debt (i.e., the lenders) would have to factor in an extra helping of uncertainty. It's hard to imagine such debt's being auctioned off at anything approaching normal-circumstances yields.