Budget talks: This is getting nasty

BrianGriffin · Jul 29, 2011

Bob Cook said:

BrianGriffin said:

LongTimeListener said:

Brian -- I lose track of the gamesmanship sometimes, but didn't the GOP insist on the extension of tax cuts as a condition of extending unemployment benefits? That would have seemed a pressing need more than the debt limit being raised. I think that's where Boehner said the idea of returning to 1990s tax levels on millionaires was "chicken crap."

That said, the substance of the column is pretty dead-on, that Obama and his crew don't know how to obtain or wield power.
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I'm not sure about your question, but if you are right, to me that's another example of allowing the GOP to dictate the narrative which, to me, is part of a failure as a negotiator.
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I still don't see, though, how anyone but the GOP can dictate the narrative, just because the Tea Party is stomping around like 2-year-olds who only want their way. I guess Obama could try to crisscross the country to stump directly with the people. But part of what made the sainted LBJ (at least in this thread) a great negotiator is that he knew that legislators wanted goodies in return, and he also had the organization behind him to exile anyone who didn't end up going along. And, oh yeah, that worked so well he decided not to seek a second term because it was so obvious he would lose. (Yes, I know Vietnam had a little something to do with that.)

I see Krugman's point about the mistake of assuming that Tea Partiers are actually willing to negotiate, but I wonder if Obama sees this as a way to bring about the end game of the Tea Party. At this point, the narrative, particularly based on polls, is that if we go into default, the Tea Party is going to get the lion's share of the blame because it openly wanted default. Obama can reasonably say he tried to negotiate a compromise.

Also, the negotiations have exposed the fissures between the Tea Party and the Republicans. Shoot, Boehner couldn't even get a vote done in short order because Tea Partiers wouldn't take the deal, even though it's clear that if anything gets done, it's going to be a few parts of Boehner and a few parts of Reid. If anyone pays politically for failing to move the Tea Party, it's going to be Boehner. Also, if the Tea Partiers won't follow Boehner, what the hell can Obama do?

As for Obama throwing out the Bush tax cut extensions, that would be ruinous for him, and the country, As Ezra Klein pointed out today, all Democrats have to do to let those expire is -- nothing. If Obama really feels the Bush tax cuts are ruinous, and he wants to stake a spot in the campaign saying so, then it would be stupid for him to cave on this now, especially when Tea Partiers aren't even mentioning that in the negotiations.
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Just to be clear, Obama agreed to an extension of the Bush tax cuts in 2010, extending them to 2012. This is the when Bartlett argues Obama should have played hardball. I would think he would have argued to do it before the election even, though I'm not sure.

BrianGriffin · Jul 29, 2011

deskslave said:

I think the market still can't quite grasp that this isn't actually going to get passed. When it blows up over the weekend, maybe then the markets will go haywire. Or maybe not. I can't figure it.

But I figure this: Let the balanced budget amendment go through. Promise to vote for it, even. It will NEVER, EVER get passed by 3/4 of state legislatures. Ever.
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Also, there has been a daily healthy decline, five-sixty points a day (down 96.8 now). This will probably minimize the eventual big drop (if it happens, which is looking likely) because we've already had a week-plus that, added up, is equivalent to a single big drop.

The Big Ragu · Jul 29, 2011

NoOneLikesUs said:

I keep seeing these headlines referring to stock market plunges. So I check the ticker expecting to see 300 to 400 points off the DOW and it's down about 70 points.

:
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The stock market was down about 4 percent this week.

I believe most of that was due to the economic news showing just how slow the economy is growing, and not as related to this. The economic news today suggested there is a some probability we are looking at another recession. The economy grew at just a 1.3 percent clip in the second quarter, and first quarter growth was revised down from 1.9 percent to 0.4 percent. Things are anemic at best and at worst might already be in negative territory. I believe the stock and bond markets reacted to the progressive bits of economic news this week.

Starman · Jul 29, 2011

No deal over the weekend, DJIA dumps 1,000 points on Monday.

Then a thousand more Tuesday, if nobody does anything.

Book it.

Herbert Anchovy · Jul 29, 2011

http://motherjones.com/mojo/2011/07/why-texas-china-west-rick-perry

Jobs for the taking:
China: Since joining the WTO, it has taken or caused the loss of more than 2.4 million US jobs.
Texas: Home to half of all US jobs created since 2009. Perry travels to other states to poach major employers.

Red states:
China: Deflates the value of its currency by 40 percent to subsidize exports and job creation.
Texas: Since 2003, has doled out $732 million in tax credits and subsidies to companies that relocated to the Lone Star State.

Labor on the cheap:
China: About 10 percent of the population still earns less than a dollar a day (pdf).
Texas: Tied with Mississippi for the highest percentage of workers that earn the minimum wage or less.

Eco-impunity:
China: World's top carbon emitter would rather burn cheap coal than sign a climate treaty.
Texas: Nation's top carbon emitter was only state to refuse to comply with new federal regulations on greenhouse gas emissions.

Tea party:
China: Effective corporate tax rate of 16.6 percent is less than half the US rate.
Texas: Top corporate tax rate of 1% is fourth lowest among US states. Bonus: No personal income tax.

Toxic torts:
China: Tainted milk, poisonous toys, glow-in-the-dark pork: Product scandals are common. Court convictions, not so much.
Texas: "Hurt? Injured? Need a lawyer? Too bad!" writes Texas Monthly, pointing out that the state's tort reforms force everyone from the hospitalized to homebuyers to fend for themselves.

Of rice and men:
China: Suffers from "a lack of adequate (even basic) social protection for a large portion of its 1.3 billion population," according to the International Social Security Association.
Texas: Ranks 46th out of 50 states in per-capita spending; new budget slashes another $15 billion from social services such as Medicaid, mental health centers, and legal aid for the poor.

Free-market cronyism:
China: "Princelings" such as vice-president Xi Jinping and Chongqing party secretary Bo Xilai have gotten rich by trading on their connections.
Texas: "Good ol' boys" such as corporate raider Harold Simmons and real estate mogul Harlan Crow have gotten rich by trading on their political donations.

Pray for rain:
China: Encroaching desert consumes a million acres of land a year.
Texas: The worst drought in history has turned large parts of the state into a moonscape.

40-gallon hats:
China: Texas:
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CarltonBanks · Jul 29, 2011

king cranium maximus IV said:

CarltonBanks said:

king cranium maximus IV said:

YankeeFan said:

Is this the same speech he gave Monday night?

LOL. He just called for phone calls, emails, and "tweets".

I'm sorry, but his lecturing just makes him look out of touch.

Present a plan Mr. President. Put it on paper and lobby for it.

We have a "Boehner Plan", and a "Reid Plan". Where is the "Obama Plan"?
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1) Have Boner completely unable to pass anything in the House.
2) Raise the ceiling himself.
3) Once again benefit from spastic Republican incompetence.
4) Smile while people whine about him lecturing.

Ta da!
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What a way to run a country!
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Your caucus can't even get a bill through the friggin House. Who's fault is that?
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It already has...ever heard of Cut, cap and balance?

Azrael · Jul 29, 2011

Pledgislation!

CarltonBanks · Jul 29, 2011

Jeff Sessions hits the ball out of the park today...it's fairly simple to understand if you are interested in the actual truth instead of partisan sniping.

Starman · Jul 29, 2011

CarltonBanks said:

Jeff Sessions hits the ball out of the park today...it's fairly simple to understand if you are interested in the actual truth instead of partisan sniping.

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uh huh.

BTW, it IS about him.

Ben_Hecht · Jul 29, 2011

Starman said:

CarltonBanks said:

Jeff Sessions hits the ball out of the park today...it's fairly simple to understand if you are interested in the actual truth instead of partisan sniping.

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uh huh.

BTW, it IS about him.
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Oh, yeah . . . we're going to take that liverlipped sanctimonious bitch seriously.

Azrael · Jul 29, 2011

Federal Tax Burdens and Expenditures: Alabama is a Beneficiary State

Alabama taxpayers receive more federal funding per dollar of federal taxes paid compared to the average state. Per dollar of federal tax collected in 2005, Alabama citizens received approximately $1.66 in the way of federal spending. This ranks the state 7th highest nationally and represents a rise from 1995 when Alabama received $1.33 per dollar of taxes in federal spending (ranked 9th nationally). Neighboring states and the amount of federal spending they received per dollar of federal taxes paid were: Tennessee ($1.27), Georgia ($1.01), Florida ($.97) and Mississippi ($2.02).

http://www.taxfoundation.org/research/topic/10.html

CarltonBanks · Jul 29, 2011

rejectedsportswriter said:

CarltonBanks said:

Jeff Sessions hits the ball out of the park today...it's fairly simple to understand if you are interested in the actual truth instead of partisan sniping.

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You must like getting slapped around by those you love.
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Not as much as Carlos Carrasco in the first inning by the Royals. This is ugly.

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Budget talks: This is getting nasty

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Budget talks: This is getting nasty

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