California -- America's first failed state?

I'd cut anything and everything. You think prisons are overcrowded now?

 

Yeah, that's what I was talking about with accounting parlor tricks.

Shysters and con artists running our state.

 

This thread is so much fun!
None of these problems are exclusive to each other and solving just one is no silver bullet. As little long-term sense as prop 13 makes, repealing it won't solve the problems here. There's lots more work to do before this house is rebuilt.

 

The problem with cutting prisons is that the Feds tell you that you can have only so many in a prison. So you either have to build more prisons or have fewer people in them. So far, no one wants to stop mandatory sentence guidelines.

I agree with you on the stupid CPA tricks. That's just kicking the can full of crap down the road.

 

California has 12 percent of the nation’s population but 30 percent of the people on welfare.

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/10/07/us/07califwelfare.html?_r=1

But you guys have made me see the light. Its the criminally low taxes people pay here. I get it now.

 

Perhaps it's because we're less willing to see people go hungry here. I'm sure the tax rate is much lower in Mississippi or South Carolina. You could move there. Then you won't be troubled by paying for those less fortunate than you to eat and have shelter. Take a drive through the Delta and feel proud that none of those people you see living in shacks are freeloading off your labor.

You live in California because despite the tax rate (or maybe, you know, BECAUSE of it) you've got more opportunity here. People are treated better here, the standard of living is higher and that creates more jobs for all, including you.

And the fact that the California welfare-to-work program has been cut is because the people in Sacramento had to cut anything they could from the budget to get it to pass. Legislators representing a third of the population of the state would rather say "no taxes" than admit that cutting programs like that end up costing more money in the long run.

 

Your very first post on this thread began
We're going to continue to have financial problems because of two things: Prop 13, and the rule that tax increases must be passed by a supermajority.

Thats been pretty much been debunked over the next three pages.

There's a reason for a crater-sized annual budget deficit. Prop 13 ain't it. The state wants to provide to much to too many people. It can't say no.

 

Lots of folks back East, they say, is leavin' home every day,
Beatin' the hot old dusty way to the California line.
'Cross the desert sands they roll, gettin' out of that old dust bowl,
They think they're goin' to a sugar bowl, but here's what they find
Now, the police at the port of entry say,
"You're number fourteen thousand for today."

Oh, if you ain't got the do re mi, folks, you ain't got the do re mi,
Why, you better go back to beautiful Texas, Oklahoma, Kansas, Georgia, Tennessee.
California is a garden of Eden, a paradise to live in or see;
But believe it or not, you won't find it so hot
If you ain't got the do re mi.

You want to buy you a home or a farm, that can't deal nobody harm,
Or take your vacation by the mountains or sea.
Don't swap your old cow for a car, you better stay right where you are,
Better take this little tip from me.
'Cause I look through the want ads every day
But the headlines on the papers always say:

If you ain't got the do re mi, boys, you ain't got the do re mi,
Why, you better go back to beautiful Texas, Oklahoma, Kansas, Georgia, Tennessee.
California is a garden of Eden, a paradise to live in or see;
But believe it or not, you won't find it so hot
If you ain't got the do re mi.

 

It might not be the cause of the deficit, but would you at least agree that Prop 13 turned out to be a bad idea?

Seems it didn't alleviate the tax burden, it just created an odd formula where Californians pay less in one kind of tax but more in nearly every other kind. It drove up other taxes and helped drive up home prices, so homeowners still end up paying the difference in their mortgage payments.

The ultimate magnet state has become one where businesses and people supporting families now avoid, and I'd say the unintended consequences of Prop 13 have something to do with it. Home prices were driven way too high for middle class families from elsewhere, the overall tax burden's too high and business are turned off by the corporate tax rates, and the state still runs obscene deficits every year. Great weather and beaches only go so far, who wants to relocate into that right now?

 

Debunked? If we didn't have Prop 13 and the insane supermajority rule, we wouldn't have to play budget games like moving paychecks a day to put them in a different fiscal year. We might have higher taxes, but they might be fairer too. Instead we have to call things "fees" and let the sales tax about the most regressive tax, go through the roof.

I suppose we could let our infrastructure degrade to the point where Long Beach looks like Mogudishu. I suppose we could have more people living in the streets than we have now. All the Republicans in the Legislature would be happy because there were no new taxes and they were able to stick fingers in the eyes of the majority of Californians who'd prefer to have decent streets and treat people decently.

 

You are starting to get a little heated, but lets stick to the facts. You can cry Prop 13 all you want, but Californians pay the 10th highest property taxes in the country.

California has the highest state income tax rates in the country. The highest state gas taxes in the country. Top 10 in state business taxes. A 10% sales tax.

You can say "prop 13" until you turn blue, but the state spends like no other. The legislature plays phony tricks because it spends too much. Wastes too much.

 

I have a hard time respecting the opinion of any person who lives in this state, watches the legislature, and blames either just the "Republicans" or "Democrats" instead of wanting to get rid of the lot of them.