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Chevy Volt a Failure - GM to Layoff 1,300

Discussion in 'Sports and News' started by Evil Bastard (aka Chris_L), Mar 2, 2012.

  1. The Big Ragu

    The Big Ragu Moderator Staff Member

    A profit incentive might. And consumer (or industrial) demand is what provides that incentive.

    Handing no-collateral loans, that we can't even afford, so we issue debt to do it -- which costs all of us -- to entities handpicked by politicians in D.C. hasn't sparked much innovation for the investment we have made. It has sparked Fisker, Soyndra, A123, Ener1, Beacon Power, Abound Solar, Range Fuels, Azure Dynamics, United Solar Ovanic, Raser Technologies, Nordic Windpower, SpectraWatt, Konarka Technologies, Thompson River Power, and a graveyard of other bankrupt companies that we pissed money away on.

    Those government handouts aren't incentives. They are actually disincentives. Those companies blew through handouts and had no incentive -- the way I do with my business -- to actually try to meet actual consumer demand to make a profit.

    Look at the $150 million of our money that went into building the LG Chem factory in Holland, Michigan to produce electric car batteries. Not only will the U.S. taxpayer never receive any direct benefit from a plant for which they are providing half the funding, at one point, the company was charging the government (which had taken over GM) for tens of thousands of man hours for its employees to play cards and video games because there wasn't any demand for the batteries.
     
  2. Justin_Rice

    Justin_Rice Well-Known Member

    I have a question: You always have examples where government loans to cutting-edge companies has failed, resulting in taxpayers losing money.

    I never see you providing examples of when those same loans have helped an emerging technology come to market to the benefit of us all.

    Is that because government loans never work? ... hardly ever work? ... don't work nearly enough to justify their cost?
     
  3. The Big Ragu

    The Big Ragu Moderator Staff Member

    Confiscating money from some citizens and giving it to others, is not the role of a government in a Republic, as the U.S. was envisioned.

    We put a primacy on life, liberty and PROPERTY. We shouldn't be taking from some people and giving arbitrarily to others who politicians want to favor -- in quid pro quos.

    We should never take from Joe to benefit Fred because Fred is politically connected. Under any circumstance. It doesn't matter how much Fred greased a politician and the rhetoric the politician uses about how the unfair playing field that is being created is in the "national interest."

    It's unfair. And no, it never justifies their cost, because it funnels money away from potentially productive areas of the economy to areas that are not being dictated by actual demand. It's inefficient at best, downright corrupt in actuality. And it hurts Americans by stunting our economy.

    In the case of those DOE loans, the reason I can rattle off those examples so easily, is because all of those companies were handed no-collateral bags of cash, and all of them went bankrupt. Is it any surprise? They took the money and ran. They never had viable businesses. It wasn't an "incentive" to spark innovation, as cran put it. It was incentive to keep the handouts coming as long as possible.

    In the case of others -- such as Ford or Nissan -- you would have a hell of a time explaining the direct benefit of Americans who are now indebted even more due to the billions that were handed to the companies.

    Then you have companies that didn't have their lobbyists contribute to the right people and couldn't get in on the game. It's a sham.

    Even Tesla. How are American consumers benefiting from a company that has delivered 5,000 or so LUXURY cars to a niche market since that loan was proffered 4 years ago. We (all of us) ate interest on half a billion dollars to essentially benefit Elon Musk. Why is he a handpicked winner by our Federal government, and what about millions of other people who would love half a billion dollars to run through while they flounder with their startup business?

    It's unfair.
     
  4. TigerVols

    TigerVols Well-Known Member

    Thank god. I was beginning to worry that the professor's keyboard may have given up the ghost.
     
  5. da man

    da man Well-Known Member

  6. 93Devil

    93Devil Well-Known Member

    http://www.cadillac.com/future-cars/elr-electric-car.html

    Using technology from the Volt, this Caddy starts rolling out.
     
  7. da man

    da man Well-Known Member

  8. Rafgu needs a history lesson on radicalism during the Revolution.
     
  9. da man

    da man Well-Known Member

    Outing alert -- pretty sure this was writen by Ragu:

    http://wallstcheatsheet.com/stocks/elon-musk-and-ben-bernanke-separated-at-birth.html/3/

    As for this:

    What will make or break the electric car business is not the high-end luxury/sport car market -- that's a niche, which is already where EVs are. If electric cars are really going to change the face of the industry, someone is going to have to make one the mass market can afford and will want. And so far, no one has really even come close.
     
  10. old_tony

    old_tony Well-Known Member

    I'm curious as to whether this might have some applications in the EV market.

    http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,2817,2419219,00.asp
     
  11. micropolitan guy

    micropolitan guy Well-Known Member

    Get into the wayback machine, substitute horseless carriage for electric car and we're exactly where we were 100 years ago before Henry Ford found a cheap way to manufacture a gasoline-powered automobile that was both dependable and affordable to the masses.

    How many automobile companies went out of business in the industry's infancy, and how many have in subsequent years? Yet nobody seriously doubted there would be technological advances and the concept of the gas-powered car would prove workable over time.

    That's (I think) where we are with the electric car right now. It's 1905 or 1910, and we're on the cusp of a Ford-like breakthrough.
     
  12. da man

    da man Well-Known Member

    Except there were already electric cars around in 1905 and 1910.

    [​IMG]

    And we're still waiting for that breakthrough.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 15, 2014
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