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Chevy Volt a Failure - GM to Layoff 1,300

Discussion in 'Sports and News' started by Evil Bastard (aka Chris_L), Mar 2, 2012.

  1. YankeeFan

    YankeeFan Well-Known Member

    Since you're "new" here, you're probably not as familiar with Ragu as others are.

    He's consistently criticized government spending, and waste, in all areas, including n the defense budget.
     
  2. Vombatus

    Vombatus Well-Known Member

    Walter vs. Ragu!!! Who you got? My gold is on Ragu!!!
     
  3. Point of Order

    Point of Order Active Member

    Worst. Failure. Ever.
     
  4. cranberry

    cranberry Well-Known Member

    Meanwhile, Tesla seems to be holding on to dear life......

    http://www.forbes.com/sites/briansolomon/2014/02/19/tesla-hits-all-time-high-wants-to-deliver-35000-model-s-in-2014/

     
  5. da man

    da man Well-Known Member

    Not saying Tesla isn't doing well -- stock price is surging again, earnings up, etc. -- but a little perspective from 24/7 Wall St.:

    Tesla's revenue did surge. It reached $615 million, up from $306 million in the fourth quarter a year ago. The car company still lost money in the quarter -- a net loss of $16 million.
     
  6. cranberry

    cranberry Well-Known Member

    Yes, perspective: The loss was narrowed from $90 million in the comparable period last year with the company expanding into China this year and expecting a 55 percent increase in Model S deliveries. The third-generation vehicle will be the real test.
     
  7. da man

    da man Well-Known Member

    You are correct. Tesla is way overvalued as people bank on it to be able to deliver a car for the masses. If it can, and that car does what Musk says it will, all is well. If it can't (or if NHTSA dings it after another fire was reported a couple of weeks ago), then a big collapse would not only be possible but likely.
     
  8. The Big Ragu

    The Big Ragu Moderator Staff Member

    Tesla's valuation is 40 percent of GM's -- on sales of 25,000 cars. It's P/E ratio is more than 15 times greater than GM's.

    That either says a lot about Tesla and how great a company it is, or a lot about how crappy a company GM is. I'd bet on it being more that Tesla is way overvalued -- particularly because, if you look at who owns each, the profile for Tesla is a bunch of momentum traders who have had a field day causing stop-loss selling for anyone who has been foolish enough to short Tesla. GM, on the other hand, has apparently become a buy for a lot of hedge funds looking for value. George Soros has been a big owner and added to his stake at the end of last year. Kyle Bass is a big owner. David Einhorn has a big stake.

    I'd love to be short Tesla -- because I know eventually it is going to crash down to earth. But I can't sustain getting battered by a truck with no brakes, while I wait for sanity to reenter the world.

    The good news for Tesla, in what it reported -- it is no longer selling emissions credits as its main source of income. At least it is living and dying as a car company.

    The bad news -- it is a niche car maker -- selling $75,000 + luxury cars to a bunch of recent stock market millionaires. As long as we have cheap credit stimulating a phony economy -- that is benefiting only a small amount of people, it can hang in there selling cars to those people -- even if it doesn't justify anywhere near that valuation. It's plan for growth is to expand into China and feed its new batch of credit millionaires -- as China has been fueling a credit bubble that looks like the U.S. in 2006 and 2007. When the overall credit bubble pops, and it will, it is not a stock I would want to be holding.

    As for the cars themselves? I will still bet that it will never be anything other than the niche market it is today. I may be wrong, but I am going to have to be proven wrong. It has less to do with EV vs. gasoline than the fact that not many people are in the luxury car market. If Tesla tries to move into a more generalized marketplace, it finds out what the Nissan Leaf has found -- this is a technology with little mainstream demand at the price point it comes in at.
     
  9. cranberry

    cranberry Well-Known Member

    You may believe Tesla is overvalued based, I suppose, on some belief it will fail and you have company in that there are obviously some big players shorting it, but the market itself indicates increased confidence in the company's ability to succeed. The fourth-quarter earnings report only buttresses that belief.
     
  10. The Big Ragu

    The Big Ragu Moderator Staff Member

    You are 100 percent correct. Something is worth whatever someone else will pay for it.

    So Tesla is currently a $27 billion company.

    That said. ... The company is expected to lose money in 2014 on a net income basis (and has not had positive EBITDA to date). It either has to do something dramatic to justify being worth 40 to 50 percent of what GM is worth as a company. ... or if it stays at this kind of valuation without growing its profit, it is not trading on any metric I could ever be comfortable with. Experience says that things that trade that whimsically eventually crash when people's whims change -- historically, people look for tangible value at some point in time.
     
  11. murphyc

    murphyc Well-Known Member

    Ha. It was actually Brett Bodine, which means people noticed his driving for the first time since intentionally wrecking his brother Geoff out of the lead in the inaugural Brickyard 400 back in 1994.
     
  12. Machine Head

    Machine Head Well-Known Member

    "Bodined"
     
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