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Chevy Volt a Failure - GM to Layoff 1,300

Discussion in 'Sports and News' started by Evil Bastard (aka Chris_L), Mar 2, 2012.

  1. Buck

    Buck Well-Known Member

    Yeah, but your GF is like 85. You're just milking her for her pension and Social Security.
    You probably shouldn't be letting her drive anyway!
     
    Vombatus likes this.
  2. Spartan Squad

    Spartan Squad Well-Known Member


    That's all true. But for me it requires being behind the wheel. I'm a terrible passenger.
     
  3. Vombatus

    Vombatus Well-Known Member

    Shh. I’m still courting.
     
  4. Scout

    Scout Well-Known Member

    I don’t think people will miss the $500 to $1000 in monthly cars expenses. I would imagine your car budget would be cut in half.

    They will also like the freedom of sending kids in multiple directions at the same time and still staying home.

    I remember hearing people say online banking wouldn’t work.
     
  5. Buck

    Buck Well-Known Member

    We'll see. Personally, I have no romance about cars or driving, as I said.
    To me, it's a means to an end in my personal life and part of my job in my professional life.
     
  6. Hermes

    Hermes Well-Known Member

    Given the amount of fraud and the debt levels of the average person now, I'd argue it hasn't. But that's a different thread.
     
  7. Azrael

    Azrael Well-Known Member

  8. The Big Ragu

    The Big Ragu Moderator Staff Member

    Right about now they have two basic choices: 1) Cut the cash burn rate and start producing cars on time and profitably, or 2) Find a way to raise more cash to burn through. Number one doesn't seem like it is possible. Number two doesn't seem like it SHOULD be possible at this point, with the $10 billion of debt it already has run up, the number of times it has already diluted its stock float, etc. But we are in an extraordinary time, in which the monetary mandarins have built the biggest house of cards ever, so maybe the madness can go on long enough to enable another Tesla debt offering or convertible bond offering or equity dilution. Although, honestly, I think things have turned and Goldman Sachs is going to have a tough time finding the muppets willing to fund more madness. We'll see soon, probably. Either way, that China plant isn't happening unless he can find some money. They have maybe a year of cash left at their curent cash burn rate, unless he cuts back, which would preclude building plants in China. The government subsidies / term-free loans, are no longer there, and his cars can't be produced profitably at the equlibrium point for demand of them relative to what he can supply. So unless he can borrow more money to waste. ... Alrighty.
     
  9. goalmouth

    goalmouth Well-Known Member

    Just about all the other carmakers are well along selling or developing electric vehicles -- all of which are built in...buildings. Musk has lost any advantage he once had. It's over.
     
  10. The Big Ragu

    The Big Ragu Moderator Staff Member

    The cost of the battery technology makes it cost prohibitive for most people when they are making a rational choice between a gas-powered vehicle and an EV. The place there is a genuine niche market, has been in luxury cars. You make it fast, luxurious, etc. and you can charge $100K, and there is a small market there. The Model S was that car, because it attracted a small cult following of stock market millionaires who saw it as a status symbol. Unfortunately for Elon Musk, he wasn't a good enough business man to actually produce those $100K cars profitably. He's lived on government handouts, debt and equity dilutions. Mercedes, BMW and Audi are all very close to offering those $100K cars, and I think you likely are correct about what happens next. They may not be able to find huge margins in the cars, but they are not companies that are in the habit of selling cars for a loss, while they borrow more and more to keep a ghost company alive.

    As for a mass-market EV, I think that is just pie in the sky, whether it is the Model 3 (which is really just a slightly cheaper luxury car in reality), Chevy Bolt or otherwise. The economics are not there with gas at $3, $4 a gallon, let alone with gas at $8 a gallon. The batteries to give you any amount of range are just too expensive and they don't have enough of a useful life, as the technology exists today. But that doesn't mean there isn't going to be competition there trying. The Model 3 -- that $35,000 car -- is obviously more like a $55,000 car to take delivery. And even with that, he's losing money on every one he delivers. Few companies are there yet to deliver what he was actually promising -- an everyman EV. You have Chevy. You have the Nissan Leaf. Neither of those have really captured too many people's imagination, because with the features you get practically relative to the cost, it's just not a great sell for people who aren't evangelical about EVs. Already announced, though, you have Suburu, Volvo and Volkswagen working on EVs that they hope to have available over the next few years. And again, those are companies that actually know how to produce cars on a mass scale and do it profitably. If there is actual demand at the cost those cars are going to have to fetch, I'd have more confidence in their ability to squeeze out some margins and meet the demand, than I have in Elon Musk ever being able to.
     
  11. goalmouth

    goalmouth Well-Known Member

    Saw an electric BMW the other day, at a "free" charge station (in a public pay garage), in a very wealthy town. Also have seen increasing number of Tesla SUVs at a neighboring, wealthier town.

    Fun fact: Saw an early electric truck at the Henry Ford museum in Dearborn, it was Fords's wife's daily drive.
     
  12. TigerVols

    TigerVols Well-Known Member

    Teslas are a dime a dozen in West LA.

    I wonder how many people like me look at someone driving a Tesla and think, "sucker!"

    ...and I wonder how many of those people are Tesla owners?
     
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