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Chevy Volt a Failure - GM to Layoff 1,300

Discussion in 'Sports and News' started by Evil Bastard (aka Chris_L), Mar 2, 2012.

Page 71 of 244
  1. The Big Ragu

    The Big Ragu Moderator Staff Member

    Justin, I just bought a car. Paid cash. I did the negotiation over the phone. I tried to be as up front as possible, because car dealers don't make much on the sale of a car. It's actually piddling. They make a ton on financing. First thing I told every dealer I called because I didn't want to bullshit was, "You are not going to make your money on financing. Save it for the next person through the door. What I am willing to give you is a quick sale that moves a car without having to invest hours, and leaves a tiny bit of meat on the bone."

    It took a lot of phone work, but I found the dealer with the exact car ready to cut the BS and take that deal at the price I wanted.

    I don't know the deal you got, but if you got 0 percent financing, the tradeoff (if you signed on for something typical) was a dealer incentive or rebate that you could have taken off the price up front. If those didn't exist to take away from you, I know they rarely give that financing (first, they count on most customers not qualifying) to someone unless they get more on the sales price than you could have paid. Second question is, what is the term of that 0 percent? Typically those have short terms, and it is not going to be enough to make up for the lower price (I am guessing, but can't prove) you could have gotten negotiating without the 0 percent loan.

    As for the tax credit, American's shouldn't be forcibly subsidizing others' car purchases -- with money added to our national debt, nonethless. It doesn't matter if it is a Chevy Volt or a Toyota Prius or a Matchbox car.

    That said, I am glad your wife loves her car. I hope she continues to. I just wish I personally wasn't on the hook for her consumer habits and choices.
     
    The Big Ragu, Oct 10, 2012
    #841
  2. Justin_Rice

    Justin_Rice Well-Known Member

    I paid about $100 over invoice price - my salesman was doing the old "let me talk to my manager routine" and walked away from the desk, leaving the car's paperwork sitting around. I did the right thing and rifled through it. I'm sure they made their holdback.

    I'm paying 0 percent over 72 months. A longer term than I've ever taken on a car lone before, but at 0 percent .... I'm pleased that the car should be paid off before the battery warrenty expires.


    You subsidize everyone who finances a house. You subsidize Ann Romney's dressage horse. You subsidize my dad's rental properties every time he writes off a loss. You subsidize publicly-financed sports stadiums, county-built roads to some new subdivision and you subsidize the depreciation when a farmer writes down the value of his so-called farm use SUV.

    The tax code since about forever has been manipulated and spun to subsidize behavior deemed socially beneficial. Somehow, I think it's likely at some point I've subsidize some decision you've made, too.
     
    Justin_Rice, Oct 10, 2012
    #842
  3. Justin_Rice

    Justin_Rice Well-Known Member

    Oh, and I was particularly pleased when I surprised walked-in (went to the bathroom, came back and just burst in without knocking) on my salesman handing paperwork to the finance guy and the finance guy was yelling, "why don't we just give the fucking things away?"
     
    Justin_Rice, Oct 10, 2012
    #843
  4. The Big Ragu

    The Big Ragu Moderator Staff Member

    1) Knowing the invoice price on a car doesn't take rifling through papers. It is also a fairly meaningless number (which is why car dealers are so willing to share it and negotiate off it, because their true cost is less than invoice -- their holdback plus any incentives, which you may or may not know). Either way, tou can find invoice costs at half a dozen sites. According to True Car, invoice on a base Volt is $39,212. The average person in my area, according to their calculations based on recent sales, has paid $38,655 for that car. I checked a couple of other areas. The average price paid in Aimes, Iowa is $38,284. The average price paid in Portland Oregon was $38,260. I can't speak for their proprietary model (they actually promise that if you use them, they can save you more than that), but if you paid $100 over invoice, when you likely could have gotten the car for at least a couple of hundred dollars below invoice, that was the price of your zero percent financing. I don't want to make you feel bad, but you may have paid the price of that interest-free financing up front -- which is typically what happens.

    2) Your rationale for "government subsidies are corrupt" so I might as well benefit from some of them the way others have, doesn't cut it for me. Legal plunder, is still plunder. Take from some people what belongs to them, and give it to someone else to whom it doesn't belong, and that isn't a very just government. Without the auspices of government behind it, we call it "crime."
     
    The Big Ragu, Oct 10, 2012
    #844
  5. The Big Ragu

    The Big Ragu Moderator Staff Member

    Oy.

    You do realize they make their living playing on people's emotions and vanities, right, and they are really good at it? They are a team, not working against each other. You honestly didn't facepalm yourself right in front of them after that, and say, "Really guys? Really?"

    Did they also tell you they don't make any money off the extended warranty, but they were offering it as a public service because they genuinely care about you?
     
    The Big Ragu, Oct 10, 2012
    #845
  6. Justin_Rice

    Justin_Rice Well-Known Member

    Ha ha I shit on the extended warranty/gap coverage/under carriage spray guy so quickly, he was a bit taken aback.

    Seriously though - I would normally agree with you. Except they had no reason to do that, because I wasn't in the room ... until I was. Unless they were monitoring how long it took me to take a dump. The look on the finance guy's face was pretty fucking priceless.


    Nevertheless, all that is neither here nor there. I paid a fair price. Right in line with what you posted above. $39,100 for a Volt with literally every single option. And I got WAYYYYYY more for my trade in than I hoped for (especially considering it needed a $800 in parts for an engine repair and $600 in tires to pass inspection).

    There's nothing you can say that's going to make me feel bad about it :)
     
    Justin_Rice, Oct 10, 2012
    #846
  7. Justin_Rice

    Justin_Rice Well-Known Member

    The absolute best new-car buying experience I ever had was when I had a Ford A-plan number through a family member.

    Picked out my car. Negotiated a value for my trade. Had it all set up. Dealer said, "Now I can knock $500 off the sticker price."

    I said, "Nope - here's the keys to my trade-in, and here's my A-plan number. I'll take this price, instead."

    It was the one time I ever bought a new car and didn't walk out going, "alright - did I just get fucked?"
     
    Justin_Rice, Oct 10, 2012
    #847
  8. Boom_70

    Boom_70 Well-Known Member

    Car and Driver sums up the reason to buy a Volt best:

    "Even though the Volt is our second choice in this head-to-head, it’s perfect for anyone who can’t wait to experience the future. This is the iPad of the car world, steeped in cool though slightly frivolous functions and the only car currently capable of providing a worry-free ride without consuming a drop of fuel."

    If you want that experience you will pay a premium of $7000 to $10,000. It's not a car to buy if you are looking to save money in the short term unless gas suddenly rises to $7 - $8 a gallon.
     
    Boom_70, Oct 10, 2012
    #848
  9. Armchair_QB

    Armchair_QB Well-Known Member

    So it's a taxpayer-funded toy.
     
    Armchair_QB, Oct 10, 2012
    #849
  10. Boom_70

    Boom_70 Well-Known Member

    For now
     
    Boom_70, Oct 10, 2012
    #850
  11. Lieslntx

    Lieslntx Active Member

    The guy in a condo near my daughter's has a Volt. He even managed to get the POA to approve him putting in a permanent charging station next to his assigned parking spot.

    Not that this has anything to do with the conversation at hand. I just always find it interesting when I visit her and his car is plugged in.
     
    Lieslntx, Oct 10, 2012
    #851
  12. 93Devil

    93Devil Well-Known Member

    Didn't W offer tax credits to businesses that bought SUVs?

    http://usatoday30.usatoday.com/money/autos/2003-01-20-suvs_x.htm

    Yes, here we go.

    Harumph, harumph, herumph.

    DETROIT — Buying big, luxurious sport-utility vehicles could cost a lot less under the Bush administration's economic stimulus proposal, even though a Bush appointee blasted SUVs last week as dangerous fuel hogs.
    Small businesses and the self-employed could deduct the entire cost, up to $75,000, from business income the year of the purchase. Normally it would be written off over several years, using a depreciation schedule. Deducting the entire cost in one year considerably reduces that year's taxable income, and income taxes. In some cases, it could result in paying no federal income tax.

    A similar deduction in the current tax code is limited to $25,000. Tripling that creates a much more alluring incentive at a time when SUVs are under fire for fuel consumption and safety concerns.
     
    93Devil, Oct 10, 2012
    #852
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