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Chevy Volt a Failure - GM to Layoff 1,300

Discussion in 'Sports and News' started by Evil Bastard (aka Chris_L), Mar 2, 2012.

  1. Boom_70

    Boom_70 Well-Known Member

    This would give me comfort as a Volt owner. It sounds like GM has a handle on it:

    "But according to GM’s Manager, Electric Vehicle and Hybrid Communications, Kevin Kelly, what GM has fully disclosed already is it does not quite know all the potential scenarios that could play out for aging Volt and Ampera batteries – but “we’re working diligently on it every day” he said of potential re-use scenarios and related questions. "
     
  2. Azrael

    Azrael Well-Known Member

    Battery technology won't improve in the next ten years. Nor will aftermarket companies in any way offer competing batteries. Nor will used batteries ever become available from other Volts.

    And certainly no one has ever replaced the internal combustion engine in a high-mileage car before.
     
  3. Armchair_QB

    Armchair_QB Well-Known Member

    Which fails to mention that the cost of replacing that nifty battery essentially negates the taxpayer-funded savings on Obama's wondercar.
     
  4. Azrael

    Azrael Well-Known Member


    Nope.

    It simply assumes that the cost of replacing the battery will come down.
     
  5. GeorgeFHayek

    GeorgeFHayek Member

    Research I am reading suggests that, over the next 8 years (which is probably a pessimistic estimate for the expected life of a Volt's battery), battery technology (expressed in $/kwh) is expected to improve substantially. How much is the question. McKinsey types have forecasted that today's $8,000 battery will cost around $2,500 by 2025. Although you might not be able to buy today's battery then because tomorrow's battery might be capable of holding a greater charge.
     
  6. Justin_Rice

    Justin_Rice Well-Known Member

    I'm wondering about two parts of this sentence:

    1) You know, right, that development on the Volt started well before Obama was even a candidate for president, let alone actual president, right?

    1) You know, right, that the tax credit for hybrids and plug-ins was enacted in the early 2000's, by the GOP?
     
  7. Justin_Rice

    Justin_Rice Well-Known Member

    Already got that figured out: At 99,998 miles, I'm going to figure out a way to short out the battery and get it replaced under warrenty. I want to make sure Ragu has to subsidize both the first and second half of my car ownership.


    :)
     
  8. The Big Ragu

    The Big Ragu Moderator Staff Member

    You keep saying that and you are correct. But if you want to keep saying it, you should also point out that it wasn't a $7,500 credit. When Bush signed that law -- and you made it into a GOP thing, but it was passed by a Democratic Congress -- the credit for a Toyota Prius was $3,100. The Prius didn't actually need that incentive (once again proving that markets determine demand, and governments often do stupid things with what they think are incentives), because whether it is worth the money or not, in the early years, Toyota couldn't produce enough to meet demand. There were waiting lists and they were able to sell them above list price.

    That $7,500 credit didn't come into being until our government got into the car business with $50 billion of borrowed money and an agenda to push cars for which there is apparently little demand.
     
  9. Justin_Rice

    Justin_Rice Well-Known Member

    We're both incorrect.

    It was 2008.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Energy_Improvement_and_Extension_Act_of_2008#Energy_Improvement_and_Extension_Act_of_2008
     
  10. The Big Ragu

    The Big Ragu Moderator Staff Member

    I stand corrected. I thought Obama had instituted the $7500 credit for pure electric vehicles of a certain capacity, expanding on the 2008 incentives.

    He just conveniently has it now as one small tool to try to bring down the effective cost of a way overpriced, and impractical for most people, car that hasn't garnered much demand.

    One thing I am certain of. He proposed increasing the credit to $10,000 in 2013. I doubt it will get through, especially with all kinds of credits that will affect 80 percent of the population about to expire as they create their next crisis, which will dominate this coming December. But still, when you have a car that cost that much to develop in pork spending, and it has a sticker price that high, you need every trick you can come up with, to try to bring the cost down to where people will even look at it.
     
  11. Bamadog

    Bamadog Well-Known Member

    As I've stated before, a diesel doesn't require a battery change that requires the car to be literally pulled apart. You talk about new batteries like it's no big deal, but that's going to require a very exhaustive and expensive repair with a high clusterf*%k likelihood.
    And what about the car's ECU? Is there a chance of the new battery scrambling the ROM in the ECU? A new battery, a power surge and bam, you're out a lot of money. There's just a lot of unknowns in this technology I find unsettling.

    If you're not going to keep the car over 100K miles, that's one thing, but if you intend to "run the wheels off it," this doesn't sound like a hot idea at all.

    When my Dad decided, in all his wisdom, that a 77 GMC Suburban diesel was the perfect vehicle for his 16-year-old son, he'd already clocked 250K on the odo. When I sold that bucket with 300K on it when I bought an Accord, the family friend I sold it to as a hunting truck got another 100K out of it with no problems. Diesels are capable of going a long way, if you're the kind like me that runs the wheels off a car, in a pinch. There are semi trucks on the road with 500k, 750k, even a million miles on them. A diesel engine, due to the high pressures involved, is way overbuilt.

    And no, I'm not a descendent of Rudolf Diesel. I just like the engine he built and its efficiencies that are still amazing today.
     
  12. Azrael

    Azrael Well-Known Member

    A clean diesel is more expensive to own and operate than the unleaded regular equivalent. Even FoxNews and the Washington Times aren't sure:

    www.washingtontimes.com/news/2008/may/9/is-diesel-worth-the-additional-expense/?page=all

    www.foxnews.com/leisure/2012/05/09/energy-in-america-diesel-fueled-cars-making-comeback/

    They seem to make a little more sense in Europe.
     
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