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Chevy Volt a Failure - GM to Layoff 1,300

Discussion in 'Sports and News' started by Evil Bastard (aka Chris_L), Mar 2, 2012.

  1. da man

    da man Well-Known Member

    That don't work. And explode.
     
  2. daemon

    daemon Well-Known Member

    I understand Ragu and Co.'s point of view. I just disagree with the concentration of their outrage. If the Defense Dept. was paying companies to develop electric motor technology, nobody would bat an eye, mostly because we wouldn't know about it. It's hard for me to get too worked up about the GM deal when there are probably two or three GM deals worth of inefficiencies somewhere in the Pentagon budget, all of them benefiting someone's key fundraiser or voting bloc. Not that two wrongs make a right. I just can't get all worked up about the government funding private research and development at a loss with GM when that is probably what happens with half our defense budget. And you could argue that developing an engine that does not run on fossil fuels is very much a matter of national security.
     
  3. Azrael

    Azrael Well-Known Member

    'Failure? Hardly. Chevy Volt outsells half of all US cars.'

    www.csmonitor.com/Business/In-Gear/2012/0922/Failure-Hardly.-Chevy-Volt-outsells-half-of-all-US-cars
     
  4. 93Devil

    93Devil Well-Known Member

    Quit posting obscure links.
     
  5. The Big Ragu

    The Big Ragu Moderator Staff Member

    Do you have any links that tell us how profitable the car is? Not a planted PR story telling us it is the 133rd best selling car in America (and really that is the boasting point?), but how much of a loss they take on each car sold relative to the other 260 cars they included? Give away leases at a huge loss per vehicle count as sales. Sales don't define success or failure. Profitability does.

    http://www.forbes.com/sites/patrickmichaels/2012/09/19/notwithstanding-gms-protests-no-one-wants-the-chevy-volt/
     
  6. Azrael

    Azrael Well-Known Member

    How do you "plant" a 'PR' story in the Christian Science Monitor? Is it like getting an opinion piece into an ideological hobbyhorse like 'Forbes,' the 'Capitalist Tool' TM?

    From the CSM link:

    "Would you have expected the Volt to outsell both the BMW 7-Series and the Mercedes-Benz S Class, Lincoln's large sedan, the MKS, for example--not to mention the mid-size Audi A6? It did.

    Then there are the several hybrids it beat, including the Lexus RX 400h and CT 200h, and the Toyota Highlander Hybrid.

    Even more impressive, it beat every single hybrid model sold by BMW, Cadillac, Ford, Honda, Kia, GMC, Infiniti, Lincoln, Mercedes-Benz, Porsche, and Volkswagen.

    The only hybrids it didn't outsell, in fact, were the Toyota Prius, the Toyota Camry Hybrid, and the Hyundai Sonata Hybrid.

    For context, we like the data from this past January, when total 2011 sales figures revealed that the Chevy Volt and the Nissan Leaf each sold more units in their first year on the market than did the Toyota Prius hybrid back in 2000, its first year
    ."
     
  7. The Big Ragu

    The Big Ragu Moderator Staff Member

    Az, The questions anyone who really wants to define success or failure asks: 1) Does BMW or Mercedes or Lincoln sell each of those cars at a loss? Or do they earn a profit on each car sold? 2) Are their sales lower than the Volt because they haven't been under political pressure to create the impression of a success by essentially giving away the cars through heavily subsidized leases?

    I don't have profitability figures for any of those cars, or course, but that is the operative question to define whether it is a success or failure. They could sell a million Chevy Volts at a $1.99 each, and as long as the country as a whole is taking a bath of tens of thousands of dollars on each car sold, the sales figures are meaningless. Profitability is what matters. And the only way they have been able to goose their sales figures is to unload the cars at major losses and through heavy subsidization.

    Making it even sadder is that they have done it through giveaway leases, as Pat Michaels explained well in that link. When the majority of your "sales" were in the form of leases that heavily subsidize the cost for a loss, it isn't really a sale, as they would have you believe. As Pat pointed out, it's like renting a building and then claiming the person bought it. In this case, you are renting the cars at slum rents just to get anyone to bite.

    That hardly defines a success for anyone without rose-colored glasses on.
     
  8. Azrael

    Azrael Well-Known Member

    How long did it take the Prius to turn a profit?
     
  9. Azrael

    Azrael Well-Known Member

    In your weekly electric car/government boondoggle update:

    Chevy Volt wins CR satisfaction poll again.

    'The plug-in hybrid topped the Consumer Reports annual customer satisfaction survey for the second straight year, with 92 percent of owners saying they would definitely buy it again, down from 93 percent in 2011.'

    www.foxnews.com/leisure/2012/11/29/chevy-volt-named-most-satisfying-car-in-consumer-reports-survey/

    Why other manufacturers aren't mocked for making the same car at the same price point.

    www.usnews.com/news/blogs/rick-newman/2012/11/29/if-the-chevy-volt-is-such-a-flop-why-are-competitors-copying-it

    Chevy Spark EV debuts.

    www.hydrogenfuelnews.com/chevy-spark-revealed-by-chevrolet/857194/

    Tesla: Motor Trend Car of the Year.

    abcnews.go.com/blogs/business/2012/11/tesla-s-electric-is-motor-trends-car-of-the-year/

    Tesla Car of the Year price increase.

    blogs.wSportsJournalists.com/drivers-seat/2012/11/30/tesla-car-of-the-year-is-getting-more-expensive/

    Fisker halts production to wait for battery supplier.

    www.usatoday.com/story/money/cars/2012/11/30/fisker-karma-production-stopped/1737491/
     
  10. The Big Ragu

    The Big Ragu Moderator Staff Member

    Past Motor Trend Cars of the Year: Chevy Vega and PT Cruiser. :)
     
  11. Azrael

    Azrael Well-Known Member

    Nightmare fuel:

    Electric. Chevy. Vega.

    www.evalbum.com/3715
     
  12. The Big Ragu

    The Big Ragu Moderator Staff Member

    When the Volt boosted sales in September and October through leases (apparently renting a car for two years for only $4K to $5K out of pocket counts as a "sale" -- even as it tacks millions onto the country's national debt) news organizations were slobbering all over themselves to write about it.

    I predicted this one. ... With the election going to be over before November sales figures were announced, there was no use to try to juice the "sales" figures for a car that makes so little sense that few people will pay an insane cost for one. So away went the giveaway leases. And the number of Volt "sales" dropped in half. Back down to 1,500 of them sold. When someone actually is able to get into the nitty gritty and figure out how many were actually just straight up retail sales, I am certain the number will be a few hundred cars -- since even at the sales peak, when you subtracted the retail leases and fleet sales they sold only about 900 of them in October -- (WITH the car being subsidized by a $7500 bribe that we all pay for that, that is the best this thing can do).

    Not surprisingly, the news wasn't filled up with stories about Volt sales the same way it was when they wanted to tout the nonsensical juiced figures to make it seem like people are actually buying the cars, rather than them being given away at huge losses.

    Someone pointed out to me the other day, when Bloomberg did its story on the Chevy Spark, they actually quoted the price as less than $25K. Somehow now, the retail price quoted in news stories for these ridiculous Chevy cars now includes the $7500 tax incentive. In the same story, though, they quoted the price of a Nissan Leaf WITHOUT the tax incentive. When I went and looked at the story I was amazed.

    Either way, the Spark doesn't cost less than $25K. It costs $32.5K. $7.5K of the cost gets borne by all of us.

    This is how much of a miserable failure that car is going to be. ... The gasoline version of the Spark costs less than $13K (starting price $12245). To realize $20,000 in gas savings (more than the cost of the car) from one of those that the EV costs on top of the gas version, the typical person is going to take at least 15 to 20 years of driving around in that little overpriced tin box.

    It's why sales of the Nissan Leaf and the Mitsubishi i-MiEV have been so anemic. The cars make no sense. Even with our government-run auto company marketing the hell out of these nonsensical cars (why not; just tack the cost onto the National debt), the marketplace isn't going to magically buy up a car that makes no sense. Even with a $7500 bribe we all pay for, that still leaves the thing way overpriced and dding to our national debt.

    What a disaster GM has turned into. ... Chevy overall had flat sales last month, year over year. GM overall had sales up by 3 percent. That is compared to a 15 percent average for ALL cars. Ford sales up 11 percent. Chrysler sales up 14 percent. Toyota sales up 17 percent. Honda sales up 39 percent.

    What a bath our country is taking on this corruption. It's too bad it gets so little attention and the attention it does get is skewed by misinformation planted to obscure the truth about what is going on with GM.
     
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