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Class warfare summed up in a simple joke (with an accompanying cartoon)

Discussion in 'Anything goes' started by Double J, Feb 28, 2011.

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  1. RickStain

    RickStain Well-Known Member

    If nobody is willing to buy things at the price it costs to produce them in America, then you aren't going to see a magic price drop. You are going to get nothing being produced at all.
     
  2. Boom_70

    Boom_70 Well-Known Member

    If Wisconsin focused on getting Amazon to collect sales tax on their behalf it would more than offset loss in property tax concessions to Walmart.

    Today Amazon is a bigger villain to the middle class way of life than Walmart could ever dream of.

    If I were an author I would not allow my books to be sold through Amazon on principle.
     
  3. The Big Ragu

    The Big Ragu Moderator Staff Member

    Once again, because that nonsense can't be countered enough. Shareholders of Walmart giving away 1/3 of the profits was your brilliant suggestion.

    There is the minor problem that the shareholders of Walmart will kick out a management that intentionally minimizes the company's profits. And no management would do it, because those people value their jobs. Shareholders are not buying the stock to give away their profits. You realize that companies are valued on a ratio of stock price to EARNINGS?

    It shows the biggest lack of self awareness imaginable about how businesses compete in a marketplace and how it benefits our economy.

    If Walmart doesn't maximize profits, and in this case you are suggesting it intentionally give ONE-THIRD of its profits away, it depresses its stock price. That is how you send your stock price to the garbage. People don't invest in companies that intentionally depress profits.

    Say hello to the competition, ready to clean Walmart's clock. Investors will flee Walmart and flock to those companies. With their higher stock prices, they will have an easier time raising money than Walmart does. And as they grow (and pay their employees precisely what Walmart pays its employees now in a competitive labor market), Walmart shrinks. Goodbye to the higher-paying Walmart jobs you think you created.

    Not only that, but say goodbye to the small investors in mutual funds, and the pension funds, that have benefited nicely from owning Walmart stock. Say goodbye to the price benefits consumers have gotten from Walmart's existence.

    Your suggestion is that Walmart put itself out of business. That gets you one of two things: A new Walmart. Or no Walmart. An economy where businesses intentionally minimize their profits is your great suggestion. There is a formula for a strong economy that provides jobs.
     
  4. Baron Scicluna

    Baron Scicluna Well-Known Member

    Herein lies the problem. Too much greed.

    If I had money to invest, I'd rather make 2/3 of the profits that I'd receive if I invested in a company and have that company's workers make a decent living than sell my soul for a few extra points in the stock price. But that's just me.

    Using the newspaper industry as an example. Right now, the stock price is in the toliet for most companies. A good part of that was inevitable with the rise of the Internet. To use your example, more competition came in to challenge newspapers, both in content and in advertising.

    Yet, rather than plow some of their profits into finding online ventures in oh, 2001, or so, they chose to pocket their 27 percent profit margins. And they did so, year after year. Rewarding their investors, who kept demanding more and more. So they kept expanding, buying up other newspapers and chains, which was making the stock price of the company grow. That is, until 2005/2006. Then, it all came down, and now the investors are fleeing because their company's stock, which was once $90 a share, crashed down to $3/share.

    Instead of telling investors in 2001, "We're making all this money now! The hell with the future!", they needed to tell them, "You're going to be making some money now, but we need to make this company viable in the long term. So, while your profits may not be as huge right now, you'll be thanking us later when we have a stronger company down the road."

    Nope. Didn't happen. And only now, newspaper companies are scrambling, throwing shit at the wall and hoping something sticks.

    And if people are so greedy that they'll cut and run the first sign of trouble, well, that's on them. They're laughing all the way to the bank, which needed a government bailout in order to stay in business.
     
  5. Magic In The Night

    Magic In The Night Active Member

    As to the suggestion that people don't have the time to educate themselves about making conscious consumer decisions, I would disagree. People have plenty of time to watch "American Idol," "The Real Housewives of SOMEPLACE," "Teen Mom," and other crap reality TV. They have plenty of time to do lots of things. They choose not to spend that time educating themselves about what is happening in their country.
     
  6. The Big Ragu

    The Big Ragu Moderator Staff Member

    Baron, Welcome to the world you have been living in. Almost every business that ends up obsolete when it is replaced by something new looks stupid in hindsight. Whether it was the horse carriage maker who didn't start making automobiles or Tower Records and Blockbuster who didn't abandon bricks and mortar in the face of digital content. It's easy in hindsight to reconfigure their businesses for them after the fact. It's also not taking into account the stodgy mindsets that keep people from adapting and the capital investments they are tied up in that make those decisions difficult -- and sometimes not feasible.
     
  7. Buck

    Buck Well-Known Member

    Just to clarify, the sweatshop exploitation of imported workers has been a problem in the CNMI, of which Saipan is part. It is not a problem on Guam.


    Hafa




     
  8. Boom_70

    Boom_70 Well-Known Member

    It's certainly not a world where capitalism would succeed for long.

    Walmart business model has proven to be a successful one that sustains them through good and bad economic climates.
    Low margins and high employee expenses would be a recipe for disaster in a poor economy.

    As example see the grocer A&P where 95 % of it's work force is unionized. It filed for Chapter 11 in December.

    http://www.redstate.com/laborunionreport/2010/12/13/the-cost-of-unions-the-great-atlantic-pacific-tea-company-files-for-bankruptcy/

    Walmart business model has allowed them to thrive even against new competitors such as Amazon. If you look at revenue per employee as a gauge of productivity Amazon generates a staggering $1 mill per employee while Walmart generates under $200,000 per.

    One way to look at Walmart is that while they don't pay high incomes they pay a lot of them. In a day and age where jobs are at a premium that counts for a lot.
     
  9. Care Bear

    Care Bear Guest

    You're really going to blame escapist television on people's decision not to research many of the companies they purchase from? This comes across as so self-righteous. I'm not saying you are. But that's how this and many of your posts on this thread have read to me.
     
  10. The Big Ragu

    The Big Ragu Moderator Staff Member

    Well, it may also be the case that most people don't care what their mutual fund is invested in, so long as it is making them money (and presumably not violating any laws).
     
  11. YGBFKM

    YGBFKM Guest

    MITN, you have every right to spend every possible minute compiling an increasingly larger list of things that bother you. But there doesn't seem to be much joy in sucking the life out of living.
     
  12. Baron Scicluna

    Baron Scicluna Well-Known Member

    Just a point about your A&P example. Yes, their costs are higher due to a unionized workforce. Which is my point. The workers in other grocery stores ought to unionize, too. But they don't, due to fear of losing their jobs. Hence, those stores can charge less, and they get more money.

    Which has been my point on a lot of these threads. Prices would go up. But so would the wages, and the jobs would be in the U.S., rather than overseas.
     
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