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Class warfare summed up in a simple joke (with an accompanying cartoon)

Discussion in 'Anything goes' started by Double J, Feb 28, 2011.

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  1. The Big Ragu

    The Big Ragu Moderator Staff Member

    You can call the NFL model whatever you want. It certainly isn't socialism, which was your claim.

    Putting aside that the NFL isn't the state.

    The NFL shares revenue between teams, but that is because of profit motive. It does that to make a better product, which it then sells into a free market. They aren't redistributing wealth out of some sense of fairness. They are trying to create a product (and do it successfully) that meetis discretionary demand within a larger economy.

    In order for people to indulge that discretionary demand, they need discretionary income. To get that discretionary income, they need to produce something that the market values enough to more than meet their basic needs.

    That is capitalism in a nutshell.

    Call their business model whatever you want, collectivism, gefiltafishism or martianism. That is your non-explanatory term. It's still an entity selling a product into a free market for discretionary entertainment income.
     
  2. RickStain

    RickStain Well-Known Member

    I'm trying to figure out how unions are anti-free market. What's wrong with labor more effectively negotiating its value?
     
  3. Inky_Wretch

    Inky_Wretch Well-Known Member

    The NFL is the state when it comes to professional football.

    Baseball is capitalism in a nutshell. The Yankees don't send TV revenue to Pittsburgh to help the Pirates field a competitive team.
     
  4. The Big Ragu

    The Big Ragu Moderator Staff Member

    If that is directed toward me, I never said unions are anti-free market. There's nothing wrong with people trying to negotiate higher wages. It's a smart thing to do, if you can.

    If you want to do it through collective bargaining -- WITHOUT government interference skewing the labor market -- you need leverage. Grocery checkout workers don't have much, if any, leverage. Without government favors, let them try to collectively bargain. They are not going to be able to command anything more by doing so, because they are easily replaceable.

    Collective bargaining is ONLY successful for a workforce that is highly skilled and therefore not easily replaceable. It's why it works for pro athletes. Individually, they were walking in and trying to negotiate. But it limited their earnings. Collectively, when they threaten to walk, they use their obvious leverage. Tom Brady and Peyton Manning can't be replaced, let alone replaced by thousands of people who can walk in tomorrow and do their job.
     
  5. RickStain

    RickStain Well-Known Member

    Neither league is capitalistic.

    I'd like to see a league where anyone can enter a team if it pays a fee, and there's no artificial carving out of markets that each team can dominate. That'd be truely free-market. You'd end up with 10 teams in New York, though.
     
  6. The Big Ragu

    The Big Ragu Moderator Staff Member

    The NFL is not the state.

    The NFL sells its product into a free marketplace. Let the REAL state -- the United States -- try to use the NFL model for it's economic model. How do we shift around income to better maximize the country's gross domestic product? And how does the country earn that income in the first place? The United States doesn't have a larger economy clamoring for the United States to sell itself into.
     
  7. RickStain

    RickStain Well-Known Member

    Wasn't specifically directed at you, just the general sense that I get that somehow people think labor unions are anti-competitive. I basically agree with everything you wrote.

    I suspect even the unskilled labor underestimates their value, though. Reliable, trained unskilled labor is worth its weight in gold to owners.
     
  8. The Big Ragu

    The Big Ragu Moderator Staff Member

    Capitalism is an economic system in which the means of production are privately owned and operated for profit.

    How are neither MLB or the NFL not capitalistic?
     
  9. Big Circus

    Big Circus Well-Known Member

    You know what's weird? In many ways, you just described soccer in foreign countries.
     
  10. Boom_70

    Boom_70 Well-Known Member

    What do you call the $130 mil luxury tax that the Yankees just gave small market teams?

    Be better.
     
  11. Boom_70

    Boom_70 Well-Known Member

    As evidence I offer the $5mil invested in Koch Industries by The Wisconsin State Teachers Pension fund.
     
  12. Inky_Wretch

    Inky_Wretch Well-Known Member

    That's an avoidable tax. If the Yankees don't spend a bajillion dollars, they don't pay it. How, pray tell, does Dallas avoid sharing TV revenue with Buffalo?

    As somebody else pointed out, European soccer leagues offer the truest version of capitalism in the sports world. As a conservative, you should embrace the sport.
     
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