Do you believe in God

Not saying that at all. I'm saying most people who call themselves atheists are frauds. They've hardly done the rigorous examination to disprove even in a small portion of the world's gods, much less all of them.

Of course my argument is absurd. The tenets of atheism - that there is no evidence for the existence of any God - demands my commitment to absurdity.

 

Logic or not, why should an atheist have to disprove God? Christians aren't asked to prove God, so atheists then are being held to a different standard.

If I have to work to disprove God, something that's not logically possible, then I would be incapable of logically believing that there is no such thing as a supreme being.

To me, it's much more logical an atheist's refusal to even acknowledge the existence of God than to try to disprove it.

 

I've debated religion with a number of intelligent, thoughtful and logical people. You, unfortunately, are not among them.

 

That's simply untrue. I've hardly talked about my faith, why's it better or worse, etc. My faith, if you want to debate that, is a whole separate argument. One I'm happy to have.

My entire line of thinking is related the burden of proof I put on atheists. Far short of putting them down, I'm actually taking atheists seriously.

 

We're debating atheism. The absence of a religion.

I'm the first to admit my argument seems pretty screwy, and part of that draws back to how casual atheism really is. But if you really play out the hand of atheism, this is where you have to go with it.

 

I don't believe in God. That means that I don't believe there is any sort of 'higher power' or supernatural being. I can study every religion in the world and I still won't belive any of them if I reject the very basis of religion.

 

Ding ding ding.

It's potentially useful to discuss the specific merits or flaws of religion(s)...but theists and atheists hurling verbal arguments at each other is almost certainly a waste of time.

 

At the risk of bumping this one back up, I've been wanting to throw in my two cents:

The times in my life when I have been treated the worst by others have been in the name of religion or in church settings. I'll spare you all the details, but I have found most non-religious people adhere more closely to the Golden Rule.

With that in mind, I believe that organized religion has gotten far, far away from God. I don't believe in God as current doctrines teach God. But I do believe there is something bigger than us.

I agree with many points and posters on this thread (not Alma), but one line of reasoning I haven't heard but that strikes a chord with me is the gender issue.

As a woman, I can't profess faith in a doctrine or church that treats one-half of all people as second-class citizens. I resent the fact that my gender has been held responsible for eons for original sin. And when a woman "acts up", that's what's thrown back at her. When a young man has troubles in his dating life, that's the insult used to make him feel better. It's all Woman's fault.

I am disgusted by religions that preach a woman's only roles in life are to get married, stay home and have children. I refuse to attend wedding ceremonies of certain denominations because I do not want to hear a woman vow to submit to her husband while he makes no equivocal vow.

I find it reprehensible that in some religions boys as young as 12 have a higher standing in the eyes of the church than adult women.

I find it to be nothing but a patriarchal ego trip that in many religions women are not allowed to be ordained. Want to be a priest? Sorry, become a nun instead! All of the hard work and sacrifice, none of the power!

When arguments are made for ordaining women, there are two responses against it:
1. It's always been done this way. (If this were a valid point, we'd still be lynching slaves)
2. The Bible says so. (Doctrine which, of course, was written, interpreted and translated by men. Human men. I don't trust it.)

I have a hard time understanding how educated, intelligent, independent women would find no fault with what is being taught in many religions. I am not finding fault with their faith in God, but with any woman who blindly accepts being treated this way in the name of God.

 

Amen, sister.

 

Neither.

I didn't say anything about the Gospel, the way it is spread or why some never "hear" it. I'm not sure where you're going with that.

What I mean is, nobody has ever been able to resolve what I see as the most hypocritical and damning of contrasts: that the faith I was raised in preaches inclusion to all of God's creatures, yet the Great Reward that all believers seek in the afterlife is inherently exclusive even to those who live good lives.

It is exclusive before it is inclusive, and I think that completely distorts the message of love that all the great teachers of human history have preached. Including Jesus. Including Buddha. Including Gandhi. Including Martin Luther King.

Their messages were all the same:

Love thyself.
Love thy neighbor.
Love thy enemy.
Do good.
Do right.

I cannot reconcile that system of exclusion with that message. I find no fault with the message. I find fault with those who have distorted it.

Who said anything about guilt? I don't feel guilty. Far from it.

What I said was, I can't commit to a system of belief that would exclude people from eternal salvation even if they were never given a chance. That's not guilt; that's simply a sense of equality.

But I, too, must ask: Why would you equate how I feel about my faith with how I might feel about earthly and material possessions? Does your faith not mean more to you than your money or your car? Or your American citizenship?

How I feel about religion has nothing to do with materialism, and nothing to do with guilt. I would be insulted if you assume that I value eternal salvation as a "luxury" on par with money or a car. I would hope you respect all the thought and time that I have put into my beliefs, as I have respected your thoughts on the subject here.

 

now that was "ha ha" funny.

 

I have not read any of this thread. I am strictly answering the original question ...

No, I do not believe in God. I refuse to believe that there is some sort of almighty force that has any sort of control over me or my life.

On a sidenote, I absolutely despise organized religion.