Do you want to write a book?

i wrote the wizard of oz.

 

Exactly why we copyrighted the summer novel. We don't want anyone else stealing the well thought out characters.

 

Dear Mr Friend--fyi, I am a Ms, not a Mr, just to be accurate.

I'm sure every person here who has ventured into the psychotic world of book publishing has a story about selling a book, failing to sell a book, flinging a proposal, a laptop, or ones own self over a cliff. Every story is unique, as they all should be.

In no way was I minimizing the value of the proposal...it's critical and essential. But agents, editors, publishers, and the people they sell to (within the publishing house and beyond) get it immediately, or they don't. If you can't say it in one or two sentences, you have very little chance of making a sale. Thus the power of the simple idea.

I've been an agent for more than 20 years (I can't believe I just wrote that), mostly related to sports books. And in a business where no one knows anything, I do know one thing for sure: publishers think they know exactly what will and won't work for them. They decide immediately--perhaps from the back of the napkin--whether the idea will sell, PROVIDED the proposal is as good as the idea. But they're not looking at the proposal if they don't like the idea.

My post was in response to the comment that "An idea is worth fuck-all because "ideas" are a dime a dozen." False. Ideas are worth whatever a publisher will pay you for them, if you're willing to do the work.

Fair?

 

Actually, in the napkin vs. proposal argument, I think everyone is right here Established authors often don't need a full blown proposal to get a contract - but a novice almost always does - it's a litmus test. And even if a full blown proposal may not be required for an editor to give the idea from a veteran author the go ahead, depending on the publishing house, many of them will want one anyway to share with sales and marketing, and drum up their interest, which can help down the line.

 

Here's the point: you have to be able to describe it on the napkin. It's your flap copy, sell me right now. If I like it, I'm going to beg you for the proposal. If I don't get it, I might still look at your proposal, but I'm skeptical any time I need to be convinced. (And by 'I', I mean any agent, editor, publisher, sales rep, bookseller, etc.)

And when you do write that proposal, whether it's two pages or thirty or fifty, you'd still better get the best stuff up front, or you're done. Sell your idea, or no one else will be able to.

I just think it's absurd to discourage writers with ideas from venturing into book publishing, just because it's hard. Everyone knows it's hard.

 

Ms Swenk,

I think you make it sound a little too easy to sell a book with nothing but an idea--at least a little too easy for the good of young writers here who are thinking however seriously about writing a book. With just a good idea a writer might be able to interest an agent. You might even bend an ear of an editor. But, fact is, you have to demonstrate that you're not a crank, that you have the expertise and talent to pull off a book if you don't have a track record. As for everyone knowing that it's hard, well, I doubt that. And fact is, with young writers who under-estimate the challenge, a good idea might not stall at page 100 of the book-writing phase ... for many I'm sure it doesn't get any farther than page 2 of the proposal. It's a grind and nothing is less potentially rewarding than putting together a proposal.

YHS, etc

 

First book, I wrote the whole book and then sold it.

Second book, I had a book deal worked out between my agent and my publisher without my knowing it -- no proposal, no outline, just a magazine story and a signature on the dotted line.

Third book, the one I just worked out a deal for, I had to write a proposal, my first. And rewrite it, and rewrite it, and rewrite it again -- all before my agent would even submit it. It was worth the effort, because the book sold quickly and well, but I have to tell you, I have never experienced angst like I did writing that goddamn proposal.

Easily, the hardest thing I've ever written, and it's not close.

 

Ms. Swenk,

I don't minimize the "idea" aspect of the book because that's what the book biz is about.

However, there are so many ill thought out ideas that even if you think the "explain your book in 25 words" is intriguing, the fate of the book will live or die by the proposal and as Mr. FoF said previously, can also determine the advance the author will get.

One has to remember that editors get book proposals daily and as an author, you have to cut through the clutter and sell the editor on your book. And yes, you have to SELL it.

I'm sure Mr. FoF remembers the Colbert Agency up here in Canada. They were slimeballs for the most part but they'd spend days with their authors massaging the proposal. And they were good at it even if a lot of the ideas they pitched were nothing more than extended magazine articles.

I understand what you're saying but from experience I'm in Mr. FoF's Heavy Lifting Camp.

If you want to get your book published, you have to DAZZLE me.

 

I read your book, Moddy. Someone you know got an advanced copy and let me read it when he was done. It was pretty good, albeit for a very specific audience.

 

To JR and Mr Friend:

We're talking about two different things, over and over, it seems.

You're talking about what happens when an agent or editor sits down and decides whether to commit hours of time and many thousands of dollars in corporate resources. I'm talking about getting started, long before that point. I'm talking to the people on this thread who have ideas, good ones, and think it's impossible to turn them into books.

I never said you don't need a proposal....you surely do. And absolutely, writing the proposal is almost always harder than writing the book.

But before you get that far--repeating myself, sorry--you need the idea, and you need to be able to light up the room with it in two sentences.

There are no shortcuts. It's not easy to sell a book, with or without a proposal. It's impossible to sell a book without a solid, concise, fresh idea. My posts here have been in response to the notion that ideas are a dime a dozen, and that this thread is like a 'college bullshit session.' On a message board filled with writers who want to try their hands at books, I don't see the point of the ice cold shower. There are lots of success stories out there.

A little shot of daydream for the folks here who want to try but aren't sure if it's worth it: the biggest seller I ever had--million+ copies sold--was by a beat writer who had this little idea. He was willing to sell it to the local press for about five bucks. But the idea was so good, and he was in such unique position to write it, he finally agreed to write a proposal so we could shop it around, and subsequently made a decent sale that turned into a blockbuster.

Lightning-in-a-bottle stuff, I know....you couldn't recreate it if you tried, and many have tried. But how many of you here have an idea--or access to an idea--that you're not developing, because everyone says it's too hard, can't get an agent, can't find a publisher, pay your dues, yada yada....? Excuses. You can't win if you don't play.

 

Good thing jr was not around when they decided to write the bible. It would have never gotten done.( "what do you mean you want to put a book together of letters from fisherman talking about a supreme being with 3 heads")

I just did a google on ms wenk and based on her background, if true I certainly would place more credence in her advise than anything jr jr the publishing czar has to say.

 

Mr 70,

You might want to do a little more research before putting your chips all on one number. I'm not sure you're halfway there.

YHS, etc