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Dr. V's magical putter

Discussion in 'Sports and News' started by Evil ... Thy name is Orville Redenbacher!!, Jan 15, 2014.

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  1. YankeeFan

    YankeeFan Well-Known Member

    That's what Simmons says. I don't know if it's true, and I don't know what Dr. V feared might happen.

    Hannan had already been reckless. There's no reason for her to think he wouldn't continue to be.

    If that's all Hannan did wrong, let him turn over his notes, and tapes to someone at Poynter, or some other organization. Let him answer some questions.
     
  2. YankeeFan

    YankeeFan Well-Known Member

    When did you decide you were male?
     
  3. Key

    Key Well-Known Member

    Is that a question that supports or demeans transgenders?
     
  4. BDC99

    BDC99 Well-Known Member

    See, I don't see it as reckless, necessarily. Seems to me it was something that came up in his conversation with the investor, just as it came up in Hannan's conversation with the city manager who initially revealed it to him. Grantland pointed out TWICE in its apology that it was wrong of him to out her to the investor. There's no way to fix that mistake now. I know that sounds harsh, since you are convinced she killed herself because he was on the verge of outing her. But you have no idea what his plan was, and I see no reason he should turn over his notes and answer questions because YOU think he hounded her into suicide which there is no evidence of. I would like to hear his point of view on it, but I'm sure you would just think he's full of shit if he said he is devastated by what transpired.
     
  5. YankeeFan

    YankeeFan Well-Known Member

    Faux outrage?

    Actual tweet:

    Who's being accurate and honest here?

    Need to correct this one. Stack did come back for more:

     
  6. YankeeFan

    YankeeFan Well-Known Member

    Has Caleb admitted it was wrong? Has he apologized for it?

    And, why did it take until Sunday, and only after he talked to an transgendered ESPN colleague for Simmons to realize it was wrong?

    This had blown up by Friday afternoon. Simmons knew what the issue was. It took two more days, and a conversation with Christina Kahrl to convince him? Why?

    And, there's still the question of outing her posthumously in the column. The transgendered community is nearly unanimous in feeling that was wrong.

    The sportswriting community is nearly unanimous that poor Caleb had no other choice. He was forced to out her to the public, and it didn't matter since she was dead.

    Why the divide?

    Who are we to tell the trans community what should, or should not, offend them?
     
  7. YankeeFan

    YankeeFan Well-Known Member

    Did you read the story?

    It didn't just "come up" in the conversation with the city manager.

    The fact that the city manager had to hint around at it, and then wouldn't confirm it, should have been young Caleb's first clue that it was wrong to share the information. But, that didn't stop him, did it?
     
  8. BDC99

    BDC99 Well-Known Member

    Simmons states pretty clearly in the apology that the editors and writer were not sensitive to the subject and only after discussing it with Kahrl did they realize their mistakes and admitted as much. Why is it so necessary for you to hear from Hannan? Did they make mistakes? Yes, that is pretty clear, but their mistakes did not cause the suicide as far as we can tell. What is it you are looking for? Grantland has apologized for its missteps in the story, on behalf of Hannan. And Hannan will likely talk once things settle down and he feels comfortable talking about it. My guess is, he's pretty freaked out that he played any role in her decision. And I would assume he's taking a much-needed break from all the death threats and hatred thrown his way. And stop saying things like "poor Caleb." No one has said such a thing.

    And yes, the subject did just come up with the city manager. Hannan had no reason to suspect it until he brought it up. No, he never confirmed it, but he planted the idea, without any prompting from Hannan.
     
  9. YankeeFan

    YankeeFan Well-Known Member

    Why do I want to hear from Caleb? Because he's the one that outed her. He's a grown ass man. He shouldn't hide behind Simmons apology. He should speak for himself.

    He also should answer the remaining questions that have arisen. What was his agreement with Dr. V? Did he agree to write about the science and not the scientist? Did he out her to anyone else? Did he threaten to out her publicly (Simmons' denial aside.)


    He's freaked out about his potential role in her decision now, three months after learning she committed suicide. That's odd. His initial reaction was to edit, and resubmit his article.


    What death threats? Have you seen any?

    I don't see any here: https://twitter.com/search?q=%40calebhannan&src=typd&f=realtime

    Has he received any credible threats? Has law enforcement been called in?

    Somehow, I believe there's a transgendered woman walking home tonight in Harlem, who has a lot more reasons to fear for her life, than Caleb does for his.


    Simmons entire apology is a "poor Caleb" piece. He's the victim. He was threatened. He didn't know any better -- he is just 31-years-old, you know. He was failed by his editors.


    It didn't "just come up". The City manager forced the issue by the way he pronounce "she" and "her" every time he used those pronouns.

    The city manager purposely outed her to Hannan, and Hannan purposely outed her to the investor.
     
  10. waterytart

    waterytart Active Member

    The increased willingness of gays and lesbians to come out in recent years has forced straight America to realize that they knew gay people all along. I mean … Bob from Accounting? Who knew? Go figure.

    There's been a lot of talk on this thread about never having thought about trans* issues because of not having known any trans* people. Guess what? A lot of you do. People who live in small towns where everyone you know you've known since elementary school? You get a pass. If you live in a city, though, why are you sure you don't know anyone who's successfully post-op?
     
  11. SnarkShark

    SnarkShark Well-Known Member

    You don't support transgendered people unless you chose not to write about fraud they commit.
     
  12. MisterCreosote

    MisterCreosote Well-Known Member

    That's where the conundrum lies. She was a fraud, and that is newsworthy. But, while she hid her gender identity, is that really a relevant part of the fraud?

    Example: I wouldn't out the mayor of the city I cover as a matter of record. However, if he was using taxpayer money to go on romantic trysts with his boyfriend, I'm pretty sure I'd out him by writing about it.

    Is the fact that Dr. V was transgender relevant to the fraud story and important enough to go to press with it no matter what? My answer is no.

    At the same time, it is true AND public record, so I'll defend Grantland's decision to go with it on that basis.
     
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