Euro 2008 — Running Thread

I'm praying that Spain wins. What a great semifinal round it would be.

 

When I get more time, I'll tell the story of when my friends and I got caught in a tube station after a Germany-Turkey WC qualifier.

 

Holland played defense like a bunch of hungover Brits in a Sunday league.

Every time that the Dutch looked dangerous, it was from a ball on the wings. So why did they play everything through the middle?

 

I think they can, based on consistent solid play, if not overwhelming success. Say what you will about countries like France, Greece, Portugal, the Netherlands. There's three teams that can say they've made the <i> quarterfinals </i> of the past <i> two </i> World Cups. Germany, Brazil and England.

Have they underachieved, given the expectations? Certainly. But I think if you look beyond the past year or two, they're certainly in the top 10. Argentina and Brazil, Italy, Germany, France (based on the past 10 years, but remember they didn't qualify for either the 1990 or 1994 World Cups), maybe Portugal (but remember they, like France, went out in the first round of the 02 World Cup). Who else, really? There's been seven World Cup winners. I named five already; Uruguay are the other.

Holland? Maybe. But they didn't even qualify for the 02 World Cup, and they went out in the second round in 2006. Portugal? Again, in the past four years, sure. But out in the first round in 2002, and only better than England at penalty-taking.

Like someone else said, if England could make friggin' penalties, it's a different conversation. Hell, they make 'em against Germany in 1990, they probably win the World Cup. That Argentina team weren't going to beat anyone in that final. Who knows how that changes things?

Are they one of the 10 best <i> now? </i> Lord no. But historically? They're right up there.

 

Frackin' 1990 Argentina [/bitterItalyfanboy] . . . . .

England usually falls short of expectations. But where do those expectations come from? Fans and media inflating the players' abilities, only to tear them down when they don't win every major trophy.

I do think they are a top-10 footballing nation. Name 10 higher ones, and be honest.

I can't.

 

France
Italy
Germany
Spain
Brazil
Argentina
Portugal
Netherlands

And that's where I run out. So, you're right.

 

Here's what I've got.

1. Brazil (Five World Cups)
2. Germany (Three World Cups, Three Europeans Championships)
3. Italy (Four World Cups, One European Championship)
4. Argentina (Two World Cups)
5. France (One World Cup, Two European Championships)

I'd put England and Holland tied for 6th, with the World Cup in 1966 and European Championship in 1988, plus other finals and semifinals along the way.

I'm not sure, unless you want to count Uruguay, that anyone else can be put above them. USSR, Czechoslovakia/Czech Republic and Spain, maybe, with their European Championships, but none of those teams have ever reached a World Cup final. Portugal, for all their brilliance in recent years, still hasn't won a European Championship, and hasn't reached the final of a World Cup.

 

Spain? SPAIN? You wanna talk about failing to live up to expectations.

You wanna know what kinda choke artists the Spaniards are? England are 1-6 in penalty shootouts. The team they beat? Yeah.

Portugal are better than England now, but have been largely insignificant for most of their footballing history.

And the Dutch don't have as long a pedigree as you think they do. They played in the 1934 and 1938 World Cups, then never qualified again until 1974. They didn't qualify in 1982 or 1986, then won the Euros in 1988, their only major success. Again, better than England now, but not historically.

 

Actually, Czechoslovakia were the losers to Brazil in the 1962 World Cup final.

Technically, Spain were in the final group in the 1950 World Cup, but they finished last, and Uruguay's defeat of Brazil gets passed off as the "final."

I still wouldn't put either of them ahead of England. I figure England are about sixth. Holland are arguably the best never to have won a World Cup, though I'm sure that would get plenty of argument.

 

At least they qualified for the damned tournament. Rag on Spain all you like; they're still playing.

England has the talent to be one of the three best countries in the world. When was the last time they were able to make the claim of actually being that high?

 

The point of the conversation isn't whether they qualified for this tournament. Romania qualified for this tournament. I don't think anyone's gonna argue their history is stronger than England's. You could very easily make the argument that Spain is among the three most talented teams in the world too. Fat lot of good it's done them, historically.

And Spain won't be playing at this time tomorrow.

 

England doesn't have the talent of Brazil, Argentina, Germany, Italy, Portugal, Holland, and after today I could take a stab at saying Russia, right now.

It has a lot of big names who have failed to show up repeatedly when the chips are down. The biggest hole is in goal, but the quarterfinals was about all they could have expected at the last world cup, and they were mismanaged into oblivion for European qualifying.