Even The Wolf likely can't clean up Harvey Weinstein's pending troubles

I know you were kidding, but spousal rape and/or sexual assault is absolutely a thing. Unenthusiastic consent within a marriage or relationship is a very common thing. It sounds silly to argue that unenthusiastic consent by a married partner is a criminal or civil offense. But I'm a lawyer and I think like one. I want the contours well-defined.

 

Come on, Rick. That's not the question.

 

I know and you make a good point here. I'm just amused by the concept of my wife going along with anything meekly out of fear. Y'all have no idea how comical that seems to me, just because of who she is.

 

The "a racist" rule still applies. I haven't called anyone "a misogynist" because trying to split the world into "misogynists" and "not misogynists" is pointless.

Every single one of us grew up in a culture where the behavior this thread is discussing was considered perfectly normal and even encouraged. It's a society that was designed by men for the benefit of men. To assume that *any* of us somehow became products of that without internalizing some level of misogyny is naive.

Most of the pushback on this issue is just the natural resistance to change. Nobody really wants to look at the warts in their culture, they just want to live in it without having to think about it too hard.

 

There are thousands, probably tens of thousands, of rape and sexual assault cases that get tossed every year because the consent issue isn't clear.

 

I'm waiting on "the question" then.

 

Is it assault?

You say that consent must be enthusiastic, uncoerced, and affirmative. (I think those were the three.)

Unenthusiastic married sex makes the husband or wife asking for the sex a dick.

But is it assault?

It's assault under your standard. Is marriage different? I'm asking because I'm curious.

 

That's far more a legal issue (something happened vs. something being prosecutable) and an extension of our cultural resistance to the issue than it is an issue with the standard itself.

 

I think we discussed an "edge case" that I brought up on this thread. My friend and I were at the rock concert, minding our business. A pretty young woman walked up to us, stood in front of him, and began fondling his genitals. He didn't stop her - he liked it, or at least he was conditioned, by society, to like it. I'm not sure 40-year-old friend would be as hip to that.

Two posters said that wasn't assault, because the power dynamics favor the man, three if you count the poster who told me to stop being "high and mighty."

 

It would have been sexual assault if it was unwanted. She got lucky.

 

That is still too vague to be useful. It will depend on the relationship, the established norms between the two, and the feelings of the unenthusiastic side.

It certainly can be assault.

 

I don't understand how that makes a difference.