Fenian's Rainbow

GB-Hack · Feb 1, 2007

Re: Super Bowl MVP Prediction

Hold on, this thread just changed names.

John D. Villarreal · Feb 1, 2007

Re: Super Bowl MVP Prediction

Boom,

What are you doing changing this threads name?

What game is that. If you want me to start a new thread to finish - more than happy to do it.

JDV

PopeDirkBenedict · Feb 1, 2007

Re: Super Bowl MVP Prediction

I predict Barack Obama will be the Super Bowl MVP, an award given to the "mainstream African-American who is articulate and bright and clean and a nice-looking guy."

GB-Hack · Feb 1, 2007

Re: Super Bowl MVP Prediction

No, we'd rather you shut up at this point.

You have lost, and you can type as hard as you want, you haven't changed anyone's minds as to your bloodyminded opinion you are the only person who understands world history, or that you are a longwinded blowhard.

Your posts make me long for kool-aid and frankenstein pictures.

jgmacg · Feb 1, 2007

Re: Super Bowl MVP Prediction

If this is also the Super Bowl MVP Thread, may I cast my vote for Otto Von Bismarck?

GB-Hack · Feb 1, 2007

Re: Super Bowl MVP Prediction

PopeDirkBenedict said:

I predict Barack Obama will be the Super Bowl MVP, an award given to the "mainstream African-American who is articulate and bright and clean and a nice-looking guy."
Click to expand...

I think Hillary kicks the winning field goal though.

PopeDirkBenedict · Feb 1, 2007

Re: Super Bowl MVP Prediction

GB-Hack said:

Your posts make me long for kool-aid and frankenstein pictures.
Click to expand...

Hitler left-wing!

GB-Hack · Feb 1, 2007

Re: Super Bowl MVP Prediction

WINNER!

jgmacg · Feb 1, 2007

Re: Super Bowl MVP Prediction

In keeping with the new thread title, then, this means that if Vinatieri is wide right he's an anarchist; if he's wide left he's a communist; if he's right down the middle he's a victim of bourgeois historical materialism.

Man, that's a big head.

Big.

John D. Villarreal · Feb 1, 2007

Re: Super Bowl MVP Prediction

Well,

Until I hear from Boom - I will post here.

Quoting from a Phd. (John J. Ray), an expert in the field as to why Hitler was a Socialist

What I have shown (and will proceed to show at even greater length) is that Hitler fell squarely within that stream of political thought that is usually called Leftist. That is a fact. That is information. And that is something that is not now generally known. And no matter how you rejig your conception of politics generally, that affinity will not go away. It is commonly said that Nazism and Communism were both "authoritarian" or "totalitarian" -- which is undoubtedly true -- but what I show here is that there were far greater affinities than that. Basic doctrines, ideas and preachments of Nazis and Communists were similar as well as their method of government.
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Uh oh, shocking & EXACTLY what I have been saying, but there is more...MUCH more.

It was the famous historian, Eric Hobsbawm, who became a Communist instead and who later became known as perhaps Britain's most resolute Communist. Hobsbawn clearly saw only slight differences between Communism and Nazism at that time. And as this summary of a book (by Richard Overy) comparing Hitler and Stalin says:

"But the resemblances are inescapable. Both tyrannies relied on a desperate ideology of do-or-die confrontation. Both were obsessed by battle imagery: 'The dictatorships were military metaphors, founded to fight political war.' And despite the rhetoric about a fate-struggle between socialism and capitalism, the two economic systems converged strongly. Stalin's Russia permitted a substantial private sector, while Nazi Germany became rapidly dominated by state direction and state-owned industries.

In a brilliant passage, Overy compares the experience of two economic defectors. Steel magnate Fritz Thyssen fled to Switzerland because he believed that Nazi planning was 'Bolshevising' Germany. Factory manager Victor Kravchenko defected in 1943 because he found that class privilege and the exploitation of labour in Stalinist society were no better than the worst excesses of capitalism.

As Overy says, much that the two men did was pointless. Why camps? Prisons would have held all their dangerous opponents Who really needed slave labour, until the war? What did that colossal surplus of cruelty and terror achieve for the regimes? 'Violence was... regarded as redemptive, saving society from imaginary enemies.'"
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Wow, dude, very damning for the deniers that Hitler was a Socialist, but there is even more WAY more

And let us listen to Hitler himself on the matter:

"There is more that binds us to Bolshevism than separates us from it. There is, above all, genuine, revolutionary feeling, which is alive everywhere in Russia except where there are Jewish Marxists. I have always made allowance for this circumstance, and given orders that former Communists are to be admitted to the party at once. The petit bourgeois Social-Democrat and the trade-union boss will never make a National Socialist, but the Communists always will."

Another quote:

"Of what importance is all that, if I range men firmly within a discipline they cannot escape? Let them own land or factories as much as they please. The decisive factor is that the State, through the Party, is supreme over them regardless of whether they are owners or workers. All that is unessential; our socialism goes far deeper. It establishes a relationship of the individual to the State, the national community. Why need we trouble to socialize banks and factories? We socialize human beings."

(Quoted in Hermann Rauschning, Hitler Speaks, London, T. Butterworth, 1940)
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OH SNAP!!!

WTF? You are all done

Those are Hitler's own words!!

Combined with his own 25 point PLAN that is entirely Socialist!

But wait there is EVEN MORE Continued below

Fenian_Bastard · Feb 1, 2007

Re: Super Bowl MVP Prediction

John D. Villarreal said:

Fenian_Bastard said:

John D. Villarreal said:

Wow,

he had an alliance with Communist Russia, and Hitler's main policies were entirely Socialist.

JDV
Click to expand...

Well, sure, if you overlook this little flaw in the theory:
http://users.pandora.be/stalingrad/
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Do you seriously not know history this bad FB?

1.) You keep putting up this Social Democrats cra@ when anyone who knows this history knows what that is about. Here is a clue how many DIFFERENT Socialist parties were there in Germany at the time?

(here is a hint more than one)

2.) When did the alliance with communist Russia and Hitler start & when/why did it end?

(Here is a hint when they were overrunning Belgium & France that was SOVIET gas they were using in their tanks)

Unreal
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I do not know how to respond to the question, "Do you not know history this bad?" not having had a stroke this month, and not being the piano-playing guy from Shine.
Look, foof, the Socialist who waited for the Socialism part of "National Socialism" died in the camps along with everyone else. As soon as he seized power, Hitler allied himself with the Krupps and with IG Farben. He did not nationalize them. He didn't have to. They went along with the program and (for a time) got rich. The nexus between authoritarian political power and the corporate state is the living definition of "fascism" among most higher primates.
Please stop googling before you make the Muse of History cry.

UPDATE -- Here's some more fun from John J. Ray. PhD., beloved historian of people who pull groovy chicks, whatever.
http://jonjayray.tripod.com/menu.html

Art Bell is Will Durant compared to this guy.

John D. Villarreal · Feb 1, 2007

Re: Super Bowl MVP Prediction

Continued from above

Hitler was in fact very much like some much older Leftists. Ludwig von Mises speaks of those similarities. Writing in 1944 he said:

"The Nazis have not only imitated the Bolshevist tactics of seizing power. They have copied much more. They have imported from Russia the one-party system and the privileged role of this party and its members in public life; the paramount position of the secret police; the organization of affiliated parties abroad which are employed in fighting their domestic governments and in sabotage and espionage, assisted by public funds and the protection of the diplomatic and consular service; the administrative execution and imprisonment of political adversaries; concentration camps; the punishment inflicted on the families of exiles; the methods of propaganda. They have borrowed from the Marxians even such absurdities as the mode of address, party comrade (Parteigenosse), derived from the Marxian comrade (Genosse), and the use of a military terminology for all items of civil and economic life. The question is not in which respects both systems are alike but in which they differ..."

(For those who are unaware of it, Von Mises was an Austrian Jewish intellectual and a remarkably prescient economist. He got out of Vienna just hours ahead of the Gestapo. He did therefore have both every reason and every opportunity to be a close observer of Nazism. So let us also read a bit of what he said about the Nazi economy
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There it is! Can it be any clearer?

Well, what about Hitler's nationalism & attacks on the Jews?

Read below

The fierce German nationalism and territorial ambition is unmistakeable. And if there is any doubt, have a look at another quote from the same author:

This is our calling, that we shall become the templars of this Grail, gird the sword round our loins for its sake and stake our lives joyfully in the last, holy war which will be followed by the thousand-year reign of freedom.

That settles it, doesn't it? Who does not know of Hitler's glorification of military sacrifice and his aim to establish a "thousand-year Reich"?

But neither quote is in fact from Hitler. Both quotes were written by Friedrich Engels, Karl Marx's co-author (See here and here). So let that be an introduction to the idea that Hitler not only called himself a socialist but that he WAS in fact a socialist by the standards of his day. Ideas that are now condemned as Rightist were in Hitler's day perfectly normal ideas among Leftists. And if Friedrich Engels was not a Leftist, I do not know who would be.
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But the most spectacular aspect of Nazism was surely its antisemitism. And that had a grounding in Marx himself. The following passage is from Marx but it could just as well have been from Hitler:

"Let us consider the actual, worldly Jew -- not the Sabbath Jew, as Bauer does, but the everyday Jew. Let us not look for the secret of the Jew in his religion, but let us look for the secret of his religion in the real Jew. What is the secular basis of Judaism? Practical need, self-interest. What is the worldly religion of the Jew? Huckstering. What is his worldly God? Money. Very well then! Emancipation from huckstering and money, consequently from practical, real Jewry, would be the self-emancipation of our time.... We recognize in Jewry, therefore, a general present-time-oriented anti-social element, an element which through historical development -- to which in this harmful respect the Jews have zealously contributed -- has been brought to its present high level, at which it must necessarily dissolve itself. In the final analysis, the emancipation of the Jews is the emancipation of mankind from Jewry".

Note that Marx wanted to "emancipate" (free) mankind from Jewry ("Judentum" in Marx's original German), just as Hitler did and that the title of Marx's essay in German was "Zur Judenfrage" -- which is exactly the same expression ("Jewish question") that Hitler used in his famous phrase "Endloesung der Judenfrage" ("Final solution of the Jewish question"). And when Marx speaks of the end of Jewry by saying that Jewish identity must necessarily "dissolve" itself, the word he uses in German is "aufloesen", which is a close relative of Hitler's word "Endloesung" ("final solution"). So all the most condemned features of Nazism can be traced back to Marx and Engels. The thinking of Hitler, Marx and Engels differed mainly in emphasis rather than in content. All three were second-rate German intellectuals of their times. Anybody who doubts that practically all Hitler's ideas were also to be found in Marx & Engels should spend a little time reading the quotations from Marx & Engels archived here.
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What does that tell you??

Puts a REAL different spin on it doesn't it. Parrallels a LOT of anti-semetic feelings over THOUSANDS of years. Some that still exist today in Europe and elsewhere.

Thus, a lot of reason that Hitler was against the Jews was becuase he was against capitalism and the Jews had a lot of money and owned many businesses and property.

But there is more - continued below

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