Fenian's Rainbow

Re: Hillary -Mission Unaccomplished

Hey I am not real excited about that either - so don't blame that on me. That being said we need to up our national & HL security and combat the terrorists, but yeah it worries me to and a lot of other real conservatives. something that needs to be watched & balanced for sure.

 

Re: Hillary -Mission Unaccomplished

Some info on Hitler from a leading History site, Historyplace.com (although I am sure almost anywould do as it is well documented).

"On September 12, dressed in civilian clothes, Hitler went to a meeting of the German Workers' Party in the back room of a Munich beer hall, with about twenty five people. He listened to a speech on economics by Gottfried Feder entitled, "How and by what means is capitalism to be eliminated?""...

Adolf Hitler joined the committee of the German Workers' Party (Deutsche Arbeiterpartei or DAP) and thus entered politics....

The German Workers' Party now featured Hitler as the main attraction at its meetings. In his speeches Hitler railed against the Treaty of Versailles and delivered anti-Semitic tirades, blaming the Jews for Germany's problems. Attendance slowly increased, numbering in the hundreds....

He proceeded to outline the Twenty Five Points of the German Workers' Party, its political platform, which included; the union of all Germans in a greater German Reich, rejection of the Treaty of Versailles, the demand for additional territories for the German people (Lebensraum), citizenship determined by race with no Jew to be considered a German, all income not earned by work to be confiscated, a thorough reconstruction of the national education system, religious freedom except for religions which endanger the German race, and a strong central government for the execution of effective legislation....

Hitler described the symbolism involved: "In the red we see the social idea of the movement, in the white the national idea, in the swastika the mission to struggle for the victory of Aryan man and at the same time the victory of the idea of creative work, which is eternally anti-Semitic and will always be anti-Semitic."

The German Workers' Party name was changed by Hitler to include the term National Socialist. Thus the full name was the National Socialist German Workers' Party (Nationalsozialistische Deutsche Arbeiterpartei or NSDAP) called for short, Nazi."

________________________________________________________________

SERIOUSLY scary stuff there

Now what does that sound like to you all?

Kind of like what I was saying above.

Hitler was a socialist that moved into totalitarianism, just a different flavor of it than Stalin.

Totalitarianism needs very strong gov control - that is always the danger to guard against.

I hope this was informative. I think we all need to be reminded of this harsh lesson of history from time to time.

What is the saying..."those that don't know/forget the past are doomed to repeat it."

John

 

Re: Hillary -Mission Unaccomplished

Ragu,

Please see my post above

WANTING Hitler to be right-wing does not make him so.

Hitler WAS a socialist, socialists ARE left wing, Hitler's platform most CERTAINLY included many initiatives that were economically based and he enforced a strict code of "political correctness" & race consciousness to be sure to horrific results.

The fact that he fought with the Marxists means nothing - that was just a battle for control of Germany & power. No dif than the Green party battling for votes with the American Communist party.

Lastly, your paradigm & theories that:

Extreme nationalism = Right wing (err China, Cuba, North Korea, etc.)
Racism = right wing (Many parts of Africa, Korea, China, etc.)

I don't find persuasive or helpful

Anyway, like I said hope this was helpful I have to bounce to get some more work done.

John

 

Re: Hillary -Mission Unaccomplished

Are you sure about that?

 

Re: Hillary -Mission Unaccomplished

Look, your wrong

But your right it is not debateable.

The fact that you think in those terms ridiculous & depressing, but too common.

Anyway, go read up on it & we can talk later - but honestly, like I said I want to talk about other stuff more fun/uplifting and all.

Alright, well have a good one, like I said I am going to bounce.

 

Re: Hillary -Mission Unaccomplished

The NSDAP grew out of smaller political groups with a nationalist, far right orientation that formed in the last years of World War I. In the early months of 1918, a party called the Freier Ausschuss für einen deutschen Arbeiterfrieden (Free Committee for a German Workers' Peace) was created in Bremen, Germany. Anton Drexler, an avid German nationalist, formed a branch of this league on March 7, 1918, in Munich. Drexler had been a member of the militarist Fatherland Party during World War I, and was bitterly opposed to the armistice of November 1918 and to the revolutionary upheavals that followed in its wake. In 1919, Drexler, together with Gottfried Feder, Dietrich Eckart and Karl Harrer, established the Deutsche Arbeiterpartei (German Workers' Party, abbreviated DAP). This party was the formal forerunner of the NSDAP, and became one of many völkisch movements that existed in Germany at the time.

The völkisch movements were a collection of far-right political groups formed in the wake of Germany’s defeat in World War I. The German far-right believed that the sole cause of defeat was the collapse of the home front, they blamed the socialists, the liberals, the intellectuals and the Jews for failing to support the war effort. This became known as the Dolchstosslegende ("stab in the back myth"), and was an important factor in the rise of the Nazi Party. The Dolchstosslegende was false; the armistice of November 1918 had been sought on the recommendation of conservative Generals Hindenburg and Ludendorff, who recognised that the German Army could not continue the struggle.

Like other völkisch groups, the DAP advocated the belief that Germany should become a unified "national community" (Volksgemeinschaft) rather than a society divided along class and party lines. This ideology was explicitly anti-Semitic from the start – the "national community" would be "judenfrei" (free of Jews). The DAP was violently opposed to the SPD, and particularly to the newly-formed Communist Party of Germany (KPD). Members of the DAP saw themselves as fighting against "Bolshevism", though they also claimed to be a working-class party. Among the party’s earlier members were Rudolf Hess, Hans Frank and Alfred Rosenberg, all later prominent in the Nazi regime.

Although officially called a political party, the DAP was a tiny group with less than 60 members. Nevertheless, it attracted the attention of the German authorities, who were suspicious of any organization that appeared to have subversive tendencies. A young corporal, Adolf Hitler, was sent by German army intelligence to investigate the DAP. While attending a party meeting, Hitler got involved in a heated political argument and made an impression on the other party members with his oratory skills. He was invited to join, and, after some deliberation, chose to accept.

 

Re: Hillary -Mission Unaccomplished

I guess JDV is unaware that prior to my present position as policy planner for the Ontario Liberal party, I was guest lecturer at the University of Toronto, giving seminars on, of all things, the liberal tradition in Canadian politics since Confederation.

Furthermore, JDV, obviously doesn't know that I was campaign co-chairman for former Prime Minister Pierre Elliott Trudeau in the 1980 federal election.

My wealth of experience in politics would seem to overshadow his degree in poli-sci, which quite frankly, is slightly more difficult to obtain than a degree in comparative religions.

And JDV also isn't aware that I was head trainer for the Canadian Olympic hockey team in Salt Lake City. It was because of my rigorous training program that Canada defeated the U.S. in the gold medal game.

When I'm finished my book, "Canada and the Politics of Peacekeeping", I'll sign a copy personally for JDV.

 

Re: Hillary -Mission Unaccomplished

Do not cofuse JDV with useless things such as facts. He has spoken. It must be true that Hitler was a leftist!

 

Re: Hillary -Mission Unaccomplished

Take this how it's meant. Everytime JDV posts, I have an overwhelming urge to gouge my eyes out with my toes.