For current or fallen Catholics

Catholic for roughly 28 years then went atheist. YET...I still have unsettled business with the church.

I hate the stance on abortion, kiddie fiddling and general asshatery puked from the pulpit, but it breaks my heart when I have to hear stories from older relatives or friends about how this or that long-standing church is being closed. Even in my jaded state about religion, I still understand the need for community and those traditional ties to the old country that the church provided. The former parishioners don't get all weepy and go into depression because they have to find somewhere else to go. No, it's more about a loss of identity and relationships built around the place.

And the stories about crooked priests these days makes my blood boil. At the church my mom and dad attend, there's some Russian priest who does all sorts of shady shit with money - including allegedly selling indulgences (yes, that's right.) Heard about some other local priest (also from Eastern Europe) this week who owns a Lexus and a very expensive SUV along with some major real estate in Florida. He's presiding over a cluster of parish closings because of financial reasons. Funny thing is the parishes' finances were allegedly in good shape before he arrived two years earlier.

 

Didn't want to put this in the Religion thread, because there's a lot of newsworthy stuff happening in other denominations this week, so I dug this thread up.

Pretty good, in-depth AP story about how the Catholic Church (capital C) in America is getting more and more conservative.

Any Catholics who have attended Mass in the past 5 to 10 years know this is true, with everything from cassock-wearing priests to more Latin phrases, from people kneeling for Communion to a whole lotta incense being spread around.

This story does a good job of highlighting how the young people who haven't become lapsed Catholics are pushing both worship rituals and politics in an ultra-conservative direction, as the Vatican II generation ages and dies off.

https://apnews.com/article/catholic...xy-tradition-7638fa2013a593f8cb07483ffc8ed487

 

I didn’t fall off the Catholic wagon, I walked away more than 35 years ago and haven’t had any inclination to go back. From a young age, I found the whole thing reeked of bullshit. I was an alter boy in eighth grade — no diddling — and that just reinforced my belief there is no god, no grand design, no heaven or hell.

So, for all those reasons, I don’t give a fuck what happens to the Catholic Church.

 

I've mentioned it before - but separating the faith from "the Church" is what has actually helped me. I look around mass, see fewer and fewer women, and yeah, the kneeling thing at communion? I even see young people keeping the kneeler up and kneeling on the floor. Crazy. But whatever works for you. I've found it interesting how many converts have come from non-denominational and evangelical Christian faiths. I don't know if its the authoritarian nature of the Church, particularly in America - or what.

 

That was an excellent, thought-provoking article. I'm glad I read it, and am trying to parse my thoughts about it.

I do so as not so much a fallen-away Catholic, but one who wandered away from that church over time and into a non-denominational one. It didn't happen because of any big break from beliefs but as a result of a lack of interest, for lack of a better way of putting it, and a disconnection that occurred just as time went on, and life happened.

I was born into and grew up as a practicing Catholic, getting baptized (urgently, as an infant, because I was near death after a very premature birth, and then again, as a toddler in a more family-oriented, traditional ceremony), and then receiving First Communion, and going through Confirmation. I was active in the church as a teen -- a regular participant in large youth groups, and was an active, core member of the choir. Some of my best friends also were part of all this, especially the musical group, and we were all very serious about our faith. It was part and parcel of who we were. Two of the young men in my close circle were attending seminary school; I, briefly, actually gave a little thought to becoming a nun, and at one time, my brothers might not have been surprised if that happened. And it wasn't unusual for my friends and I to include prayer and gospel/hymn-related music in all of our frequent gatherings and activities, both in organized church-related events and just as regular friends on our own, outside of church. Discussions about church and God were common. It was a real, meaningful, even fun and inspiring "thing" to us.

But then, our little group began attending different schools -- there was a few-years-wide age gap among our core group (not large, but enough to put us in different places after a while) -- and then, one of our friends, shockingly, committed suicide (I think I've posted a little bit about that), and frankly, our little group never quite recovered from that, I don't think. We didn't break up, either with the church or with each other, so much as just wander off our own ways.

I went to college, got absorbed in journalism and newspapers, and we all lost contact for a long time, until those of us who remain began finding each other again years later, first through social media, and then, again, through life events that put us in touch because, even after so long, we still thought of each other often, felt like we still knew each other, and we still cared about each other. We don't see or hear from each other a lot nowadays, but I'm glad to know where they are, and that we can get together if/when we want. They are still the friends I think of, whenever I think of the really good friends in my life.

So, the Catholic Church was/is not all bad as far as I'm concerned.

But I'm in a non-denominational, Evangelical-leaning church now that re-fired my spiritual interest and growth around the time of another baptism, this time of my own free will, and as a more aware and knowledgeable adult in 2011 after some years away from church.

I never lost my belief in God, though, and that, I think, has been key for me. It brought me back to active church when I was ready.

What I wonder is, is every church -- not just the Catholic one -- becoming more conservative, or not? I'd have to say that I don't think so. The Catholic church's ideas on homosexuality and the place/role of women are hardly exclusive to it. I can see and understand that even in my own church, and abortion, while permitted in it, is not exactly fully supported, either.

The key part of the article, I think, was this: In 1970, more than half of America's Catholics said they went to Mass at least once a week. By 2022, that had fallen to 17 percent...Among millennials, that number is just 9 percent."

What I think is happening is that not just Catholic ones but all churches, are becoming less of a focus, and of less importance for many, many people in this country. Direction, and faith in general, is being lost, as a result of increased liberalism in society overall, coupled with the country's recent increased partisan-ism and divisiveness. In almost any church's view, the lines and definitions of morality are being confronted, blurred and changed, and churches in general -- not just Catholic ones -- are being shaken, and in many cases, shrunk in terms of attendance. As a result of a lot of monumental conflict and change, people just aren't going to church as much as they once did, and that trend was exacerbated by three years of dealing with COVID.

It's all making it so that any church is practically an endangered entity, and so that what will be left, after all is said and done, is likely to be tantamount to extremism, whatever the denominations.

 

It’s the damn replays and commercials.

 

This is a very thoughtful and thorough reply, WT -- thanks for sharing it.

I see similarities in what's happened to the Catholic Church in America as what's happened politically. The "big tent" approach of both the Democratic and Republican parties has faded away just like it has with many religions.

Reading the AP article, here's what struck me about the conservative college students who are trying to be more Catholic than the pope: There is an entire college of them.

When I went to a large public university 30 years ago (!!), several denominations had student worship services or centers. For Catholics, it was the Newman Center, and you could be as involved as you wanted to be -- from occasionally attending Mass there to getting involved with multiple ministries, groups and outreach programs. The levels of involvement and intensity varied -- much like a regular Catholic parish. This one just happened to consist almost entirely of young adults.

But when you get an entire Midwestern college campus where EVERYONE is a hard-core, rigidly conservative Catholic, you're closing yourself off to other views and ways of worship/living. It's like the social media feedback loop that leads to extreme polarization in U.S. politics. As you wrote, when all is said and done, you have a bunch of extremism in various splinter groups rather than a larger body of diverse people (backgrounds, opinions, lifestyles) working together to be, as one priest used to call it, the hands and feet of Christ.