FROM 2012 INTO 2013 POLITICS THREAD

Re: THE 2012 POLITICS THREAD

Except if we used cars as a health care analogy, the gas and oil change money would be the equivilant of the co-pays, and an oil change, instead of costing $25, would cost $250.

And then the insurance company would deny paying for the $250 oil change because you had a flat tire a couple of years ago.

 

Re: THE 2012 POLITICS THREAD

This has a great degree of emotional appeal, but I can't buy into it because it's not as definitive as you might think.

Consider two people declaring bankruptcy as a result of medical expenses:

Person A: Has no accrued wealth and a very modest income. Incurs $20K in health care expenses. Declares bankruptcy to have these discharged.

Person B: Has modest accrued wealth -- $200K in home equity, $350K in retirement accounts -- and a well-paying job, but lives along the razor's edge financially (i.e., expensive vacations, new cars, credit cards out the wazoo). A health care event leaves him $20K in the hole as a result of co-pays, deductibles, etc. He declares bankruptcy and has this (and other) debts discharged, but he gets to keep his home and his retirement account.

In which scenario was the health-care system "immoral"?

 

Re: THE 2012 POLITICS THREAD

Person A, of course.

 

Re: THE 2012 POLITICS THREAD

See what I mean? Person B was "bankrupted" by his medical bills, too.

 

Re: THE 2012 POLITICS THREAD

I get that. Probably should have made myself clearer. A person of modest means who gets bankrupted by medical bills, yes, that is immoral.

 

Re: THE 2012 POLITICS THREAD

But even that is subject to wide variables.

I've been relatively financially responsible my whole life. Never paid a penny of credit card interest. Paid off my mortgage. Have no car payment because I drive 23- and 13-year-old cars. Could live off my savings (not including 401k) for about 18 months if I had to.

A $20,000 (or $50,000) medical bill wouldn't bankrupt me. I'd swallow hard, write a check for some and perhaps take out a home equity loan for the remainder of it.


Someone else who makes the SAME MONEY as I but who is up to their eyeballs in mortgage/car/credit card debt very likely would have to file for bankruptcy if they got hit with a $20,000 or $50,000 bill.

But it's unfair to say the medical bills caused the bankruptcy. Because minus the financial irresponsibility beforehand, they wouldn't have.

 

Re: THE 2012 POLITICS THREAD

Baron, you're the best, and you never disappoint.

You are the King of car analogies, and I should have never trod on your soil.

 

Re: THE 2012 POLITICS THREAD

Even I'll admit that the flat tire as pre-existing condition is a pretty good one.

 

Re: THE 2012 POLITICS THREAD

I wonder how that happened. . .



President Nixon: “Well, that appeals to me.”

Ehrlichman: “Edgar Kaiser is running his Permanente deal for profit. And the reason that he can … the reason he can do it … I had Edgar Kaiser come in … talk to me about this and I went into it in some depth. All the incentives are toward less medical care, because …”

President Nixon: [Unclear.]

Ehrlichman: “… the less care they give them, the more money they make.”

President Nixon: “Fine.” [Unclear.]

Ehrlichman: [Unclear] “… and the incentives run the right way.”


en.wikisource.org/wiki/Transcript_of_taped_conversation_between_President_Richard_Nixon_and_John_D._Ehrlichman_(1971)_that_led_to_the_HMO_act_of_1973:

 

Re: THE 2012 POLITICS THREAD

There's also the fact that whenever anyone suggests doing something that's less insurance-based, he/she gets excoriated for not understanding how "the little guy" lives. Pretty sure those doing the excoriating aren't the ones getting rich by denying payment for covered conditions.

 

Re: THE 2012 POLITICS THREAD

Yes, that would seem to be the administration's position, assuming the preconditions for such action have been met.

 

Re: THE 2012 POLITICS THREAD

I'm thinking that the administration leaked this drone document just to get it out on
the table now with Brennen confirmation hearings looming.