FROM 2012 INTO 2013 POLITICS THREAD

Baron Scicluna · Feb 7, 2013

Re: THE 2012 POLITICS THREAD

old_tony said:

Baron Scicluna said:

old_tony said:

Baron Scicluna said:

YankeeFan said:

Baron Scicluna said:

After all, YF said he charged something like $50 or $75 just to walk in the door to fix his coffee machines, plus any other expenses and labor. I'd think that a doctor would be charging even more for his time, plus for the costs of maintaining an office and staff.
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Is the doctor making house calls?

On a good day, I (personally) do four jobs. The most I've ever done in a day is seven jobs.

Do you know how many patients a doctor can see in a day? They've got you in that little room waiting for you. The "nurse" has already taken your vitals. The doctor comes in and spends 10 minutes with you.

If that was how my business worked, I could charge less.
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But would you?

The market shows people are willing to pay a certain amount to fix coffee machines. If someone is willing to pay you a certain price, would you accept less?

The same with a doctor. I doubt that most doctors, unless they were doing charity work, would accept less.
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Except that in the example already shown above, they were willing to take $750 instead of $2,600. So there goes your point.
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And if the insurance would have paid the $2,600, the poster would have only paid $10. So there goes your point.
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Not hardly. The issue with the healthcare system is what healthcare costs, not who pays what. In one example, the procedure COSTS $750, in the other it COSTS $2,600.
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It's both. How much it costs, and who pays.

Sure, the doctor is willing to settle for $750 in cash. But what if the poster still couldn't afford to pay it? Then they'd be out of luck. Apply that to a major life-threatening emergency.

Heck, someone close to me was hospitalized for a few days a few years back. The bill came to about $15,000. They paid $750, and insurance paid the rest.

If the insurance company refused to pay it, maybe the hospital cuts its costs down by 2/3, maybe not. If they did, the hospital stay would have cost $5,000, not $750.

BenPoquette · Feb 7, 2013

Re: THE 2012 POLITICS THREAD

Baron Scicluna said:

old_tony said:

Baron Scicluna said:

old_tony said:

Baron Scicluna said:

YankeeFan said:

Baron Scicluna said:

After all, YF said he charged something like $50 or $75 just to walk in the door to fix his coffee machines, plus any other expenses and labor. I'd think that a doctor would be charging even more for his time, plus for the costs of maintaining an office and staff.
Click to expand...

Is the doctor making house calls?

On a good day, I (personally) do four jobs. The most I've ever done in a day is seven jobs.

Do you know how many patients a doctor can see in a day? They've got you in that little room waiting for you. The "nurse" has already taken your vitals. The doctor comes in and spends 10 minutes with you.

If that was how my business worked, I could charge less.
Click to expand...

But would you?

The market shows people are willing to pay a certain amount to fix coffee machines. If someone is willing to pay you a certain price, would you accept less?

The same with a doctor. I doubt that most doctors, unless they were doing charity work, would accept less.
Click to expand...

Except that in the example already shown above, they were willing to take $750 instead of $2,600. So there goes your point.
Click to expand...

And if the insurance would have paid the $2,600, the poster would have only paid $10. So there goes your point.
Click to expand...

Not hardly. The issue with the healthcare system is what healthcare costs, not who pays what. In one example, the procedure COSTS $750, in the other it COSTS $2,600.
Click to expand...

It's both. How much it costs, and who pays.

Sure, the doctor is willing to settle for $750 in cash. But what if the poster still couldn't afford to pay it? Then they'd be out of luck. Apply that to a major life-threatening emergency.

Heck, someone close to me was hospitalized for a few days a few years back. The bill came to about $15,000. They paid $750, and insurance paid the rest.

If the insurance company refused to pay it, maybe the hospital cuts its costs down by 2/3, maybe not. If they did, the hospital stay would have cost $5,000, not $750.
Click to expand...

I understand what you are saying and don't think anyone in their right mind thinks there should not be some kind of assistance for those who cannot afford to pay for life-saving medical expenses. But the point of my initial scenario is that the doctor is willing to take $750 for a procedure he can sell to the insurance company for $2,600. It makes me question how much of that $2,600 actually ends up going to the doctor and how much gets caught up in administrative expenses and other unseen costs.

Hokie_pokie · Feb 7, 2013

Re: THE 2012 POLITICS THREAD

Anyone who took Econ 101 in college should be able to understand how free market forces would necessarily drive down the price of ROUTINE health care if we all had to pay for it out of pocket instead of swiping the debit card for a nifty $10 co-pay.

The reason is simple: No matter how much doctors WANT to charge, they could only charge what their patients were both WILLING and ABLE to pay.

Otherwise, they eventually won't have any patients and it's "So long, thriving medical career .... hello, Taco Bell drive-thru."

It's supply and demand, people. You shouldn't have to be Adam Smith to understand the concept.

old_tony · Feb 7, 2013

Re: THE 2012 POLITICS THREAD

Hokie_pokie said:

Anyone who took Econ 101 in college should be able to understand how free market forces would necessarily drive down the price of ROUTINE health care if we all had to pay for it out of pocket instead of swiping the debit card for a nifty $10 co-pay.

The reason is simple: No matter how much doctors WANT to charge, they could only charge what their patients were both WILLING and ABLE to pay.

Otherwise, they eventually won't have any patients and it's "So long, thriving medical career .... hello, Taco Bell drive-thru."

It's supply and demand, people. You shouldn't have to be Adam Smith to understand the concept.
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I'm pretty sure they're ABLE to understand. It's a matter of not wanting to understand because it ruins their socialist schemes and dreams.

Azrael · Feb 7, 2013

Re: THE 2012 POLITICS THREAD

"Why markets can’t cure healthcare"

krugman.blogs.nytimes.com/2009/07/25/why-markets-cant-cure-healthcare/

Uncle.Ruckus · Feb 7, 2013

Re: THE 2012 POLITICS THREAD

Azrael said:

"Why markets can’t cure healthcare"

krugman.blogs.nytimes.com/2009/07/25/why-markets-cant-cure-healthcare/
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Why can't Nobel Prize-winning economist Paul Krugman understand basic economics?

Uncle.Ruckus · Feb 7, 2013

Re: THE 2012 POLITICS THREAD

Me too. It's like he never even read Wealth of Nations.

Baron Scicluna · Feb 7, 2013

Re: THE 2012 POLITICS THREAD

Hokie_pokie said:

Anyone who took Econ 101 in college should be able to understand how free market forces would necessarily drive down the price of ROUTINE health care if we all had to pay for it out of pocket instead of swiping the debit card for a nifty $10 co-pay.

The reason is simple: No matter how much doctors WANT to charge, they could only charge what their patients were both WILLING and ABLE to pay.

Otherwise, they eventually won't have any patients and it's "So long, thriving medical career .... hello, Taco Bell drive-thru."

It's supply and demand, people. You shouldn't have to be Adam Smith to understand the concept.
Click to expand...

Except there isn't an endless supply of doctors for patients to pick and choose from. There are doctors, especially specialists, who patients have to wait months for just for one appointment.

YankeeFan · Feb 7, 2013

Re: THE 2012 POLITICS THREAD

Uncle.Ruckus said:

Or the 3.49 station across the street. Or the 3.49 station next to that.

That's my point.
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This isn't a great example.

Gas station prices aren't similar because the price is being kept artificially high by gas stations. They are similar because of competition. Gas station owners operate on very slim margins on gas prices. They make a couple of cents per gallon.

They make more money selling cigarets, lottery tickets, and energy drinks.

The (relatively) low prices on gas bring people into the mini-mart where they make their real money.

old_tony · Feb 7, 2013

Re: THE 2012 POLITICS THREAD

“I predict that in the years ahead Enron, not Sept. 11, will come to be seen as the greater turning point in U.S. society.” -- Paul Krugman

Captain Obvious · Feb 7, 2013

Re: THE 2012 POLITICS THREAD

I'd like to see TV and radio commercials advertising how much better one surgeon is while it tells us how many people another surgeon kills.

YankeeFan · Feb 7, 2013

Re: THE 2012 POLITICS THREAD

Baron Scicluna said:

Hokie_pokie said:

Anyone who took Econ 101 in college should be able to understand how free market forces would necessarily drive down the price of ROUTINE health care if we all had to pay for it out of pocket instead of swiping the debit card for a nifty $10 co-pay.

The reason is simple: No matter how much doctors WANT to charge, they could only charge what their patients were both WILLING and ABLE to pay.

Otherwise, they eventually won't have any patients and it's "So long, thriving medical career .... hello, Taco Bell drive-thru."

It's supply and demand, people. You shouldn't have to be Adam Smith to understand the concept.
Click to expand...

Except there isn't an endless supply of doctors for patients to pick and choose from. There are doctors, especially specialists, who patients have to wait months for just for one appointment.
Click to expand...

Example?

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FROM 2012 INTO 2013 POLITICS THREAD

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