FROM 2012 INTO 2013 POLITICS THREAD

Well put.

I only wish I could be surprised by tony's disgraceful lack of integrity.

 

Details aren't your strong suit are they?

Just so's the rest of the board will be clear ...

The CEO of Hobby Lobby is David Green. He founded the firm in 1972. His son Steve is president of Hobby Lobby. His other son Mart founded and is CEO of Mardel Christian (the chain of book stores). This Cargill guy is from Oklahoma City, where Hobby Lobby is headquartered, and came up through the ranks in the Green family businesses. I strongly suspect that if you combed the ranks of Hobby Lobby's upper "administration," you'd find that pattern to be all but universal.

The elder Green does not object to, as you so misleadlingly put it, "providing health care for employees." He objects to being required, under the ACA, to provide policies that cover abortifacients:

Whether I agree with the guy or not, I'm not interested in treating him (and, by extension his business) dishonestly. Saying he and his are "cool with war" doesn't rise to the level of "lying" in my book -- I think OOP would call that lying, but OOP uses a relatively low hurdle for that -- but it comes damn close.

 

Even if the Hobby Lobby "administration" was all raving hypocrites, don't you think they'd be able to afford their own IUDs and "morning after" pills if they needed/wanted them?

 

It's still upper management.

From the link...

Others question why Hobby Lobby has chosen to address the contraceptive mandate but not other morally questionable issues within government, such as the funding of wars in Iraq and Afghanistan.
"What I don't understand is why this issue is any different than someone whose religious beliefs say war is sinful being 'forced' to pay taxes that support U.S. military operations in Iraq and Afghanistan," wrote reader Ryan P. on the Her.maneutics website.
"Either we are morally culpable for paying those taxes, providing that health coverage, or we aren't. If we do incur moral guilt because of the actions of our government, surely the Hobby Lobby owners must believe they are incurring guilt in areas other than just providing coverage for this contraceptive. But they don't seem to be making a big deal about the other areas of morally questionable government behavior," the commenter added.
Another sticking point for some is the issue of many of Hobby Lobby's products being made in China, which some critics argue does not demonstrate a "Christian business model" because the labor and wage regulations in other countries oftentimes differ from those in the U.S.
In a blog post on EthoShift, Matt Chambers takes issue with Hobby Lobby's use of the word "biblical principles" in its statement of purpose, found on the company website.

Read more at http://global.christianpost.com/news/christians-question-hobby-lobbys-defense-biblical-stance-against-obamacare-lawsuit-87935/#AzVYMWhFDHmOgvxL.99

Now, did Hobby Lobby provide health care to all employees before Obamacare? If that answer is yes, then they have some ground to stand on. But if they did not, well...

If they said they were willing to provide health care coverage to employees without the questioned areas, that might seem OK. But then some other company would find another loophole to attack, using the Bible.

For example, a group can all of a sudden be against blood transfusions, which would eliminate some major surgeries. Here are some Bible versus they might cling to...

http://www.kingjamesbibleonline.org/Bible-Verses-About-Blood-Transfusion/

 

It's like you were worried that Baron might claim your title as dumbest poster on the board, and decided to vigorously defend your position.

(Though, Baron isn't actually dumb. His world view just locks him into certain positions that make him look dumb.)

 

You do understand that intelligent people do not call each other dumb? We leave that for others.

You might want to give this a look...

 

I didn't claim any level of intelligence for myself. In fact, I've consistently said that many here are far smarter (and better educated) than me.

But, I can sport dumb when I see it. And, boy are you dumb!

 

Lol

 

Using this quote ...

... to justify saying that Hobby Lobby's upper management is "cool with war" is not suggestive of intelligence.

 

Look, we all know that money is fungible -- and that's why Conservatives balk government funding for groups like Planned Parenthood, even if the government funding doesn't directly pay for abortions.

(And, for the sake of this discussion, let's even set aside the question of a "Just War" and whether or not Hobby Lobby is "cool with war".)

So, yes, all of our tax dollars go to pay for our national defense, and I'm not sure there is a way for a company or individual to object to that, or request some waiver for it.

But, the ACA comes with new costs, and specific mandates. Money specifically spent on these mandates would cover abortifacients. Whether you agree with it or not, the process to exempt a company from this mandate is easily accomplished.

 

I think Devil's use of the word "administration" just means he semi-outed himself as a teacher of some sort.

In conversations with teachers previously, I've noted they've used the word "administration" as a catch-all for any senior leadership or upper management, depending on the context.

I seem to recall that Hobby Lobby was always considered one of the better big box retail stores as they offered decent pay and benefits to its employees. But in the culture wars, you only have losers, nobody ever wins.

 

He's noted on several occasions that he is a teacher. That's the scary part of all of this.

The dumbest guy on the entire board is a teacher. Hopefully it's not indicative of anything.