FROM 2012 INTO 2013 POLITICS THREAD

dixiehack · Oct 30, 2012

Re: THE 2012 POLITICS THREAD

Dick Whitman said:

I don't love the compromises that both Obama and Romney have been willing to make to keep themselves electable - for example, the non-existence of climate change as an issue in this election.

However, I can't get on board with the growing chorus that this is a vote between two terrible candidates. I'm far from a huge Romney fan, and certainly not a fan of Paul Ryan's Ayn Rand b.s., but the four men on the national ticket are all intelligent, highly educated, highly accomplished, highly articulate, and scandal-free (with the exception of Biden and his speech cribbing in 1988).

Is it just reflexive nowadays to bitch about the two choices in any given election? I understand the desire for a third party to keep these two honest, at the least, but people seem to think that they are choosing between two incompetent boobs. They aren't.
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The fact that Romney's serial lying isn't a scandal damns America more than anything Jeremiah Wright could dream up.

Dick Whitman · Oct 30, 2012

Re: THE 2012 POLITICS THREAD

GeorgeFHayek said:

Big Circus said:

old_tony said:

Because calling a dumb hen a dumb hen is so much more offensive than reducing women to their sex parts and telling them they can't survive without Barack buying their birth control. :
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This is just an incredible lack of self-awareness. A right-winger complaining about other people "reducing women to their sex parts" in reference to the Lena Dunham kerfluffle? There's never been greater evidence of the way the right does exactly that than the past few weeks.

Male Republican Congressional candidates opining about rape being "God's will"? That's fine. But a woman discussing SEX!!!!!! in a political context? UNACCEPTABLE. Ladies, the message is abundantly clear: to the Republican party, you aren't deserving of sexual agency. Women are there to be sexed ON.
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You'd think at a site for journalists (current and former) people would be better than this at listing to what's actually said ...
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Sorry, but that's what he said. It may not be what he meant, but it's what he said. In this case, Republicans are the ones trying to parse the quote to death. The conception was God's will, but not the rape? That's a pretty generous interpretation of what he said.

Big Circus · Oct 30, 2012

Re: THE 2012 POLITICS THREAD

Semantics. The actual Mourdock quote: "Even when life begins in that horrible situation of rape, that it is something that God intended to happen." So Mourdock thinks that God intended the pregnancy to happen, but not the criminal sexual act that caused the pregnancy? Are you Ann Iverson?

Big Circus · Oct 30, 2012

Re: THE 2012 POLITICS THREAD

And I will have you know that I am FANTASTIC at listing things.

Dick Whitman · Oct 30, 2012

Re: THE 2012 POLITICS THREAD

Big Circus said:

Semantics. The actual Mourdock quote: "Even when life begins in that horrible situation of rape, that it is something that God intended to happen." So Mourdock thinks that God intended the pregnancy to happen, but not the criminal sexual act that caused the pregnancy? Are you Ann Iverson?
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Exactly. I just take serious issue with this notion that Democrats are stretching what he said. No. The syntax is easily interpretable to be, "The rape was God's will." Easily.

GeorgeFHayek · Oct 30, 2012

Re: THE 2012 POLITICS THREAD

Dick Whitman said:

In this case, Republicans are the ones trying to parse the quote to death. The conception was God's will, but not the rape? That's a pretty generous interpretation of what he said.
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Come on ... the Dems are the ones with the pretty generous interpretation. He was asked a question about abortion in pregnancies resulting from rape. I'm sure the Dems think he's a dumb-shit (and he may be), but you have to be prepared to do some serious mental gymnastics to read his answer to that question as some version of "the rape God's will."

Dick Whitman · Oct 30, 2012

Re: THE 2012 POLITICS THREAD

GeorgeFHayek said:

Dick Whitman said:

In this case, Republicans are the ones trying to parse the quote to death. The conception was God's will, but not the rape? That's a pretty generous interpretation of what he said.
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Come on ... the Dems are the ones with the pretty generous interpretation. He was asked a question about abortion in pregnancies resulting from rape. I'm sure the Dems think he's a dumb-shit (and he may be), but you have to be prepared to do some serious mental gymnastics to read his answer to that question as some version of "the rape God's will."
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I completely disagree. It's not at all obvious that he didn't mean that. Not at all. In fact, the benefit of the doubt goes the other direction. Reading his sentence, the burden is absolutely on him to explain why we shouldn't intepret it that way.

dixiehack · Oct 30, 2012

Re: THE 2012 POLITICS THREAD

Akin makes dumb comment

Mourdock makes dumb comment

??????????????

PROFIT!

Big Circus · Oct 30, 2012

Re: THE 2012 POLITICS THREAD

GeorgeFHayek said:

Dick Whitman said:

In this case, Republicans are the ones trying to parse the quote to death. The conception was God's will, but not the rape? That's a pretty generous interpretation of what he said.
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Come on ... the Dems are the ones with the pretty generous interpretation. He was asked a question about abortion in pregnancies resulting from rape. I'm sure the Dems think he's a dumb-shit (and he may be), but you have to be prepared to do some serious mental gymnastics to read his answer to that question as some version of "the rape God's will."
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God to skeezy rapist guy: "Hey man, I really, really want this lady to get pregnant with your baby. In fact, it's my intention that that happen. How you get that done is up to you."

Inky_Wretch · Oct 30, 2012

Re: THE 2012 POLITICS THREAD

I know politicians lie, lie, lie during campaigns, but Romney lying about Jeep - an American icon - shows how desperate he is to gain ground in Ohio.

Bob Cook · Oct 30, 2012

Re: THE 2012 POLITICS THREAD

GeorgeFHayek said:

Dick Whitman said:

In this case, Republicans are the ones trying to parse the quote to death. The conception was God's will, but not the rape? That's a pretty generous interpretation of what he said.
Click to expand...

Come on ... the Dems are the ones with the pretty generous interpretation. He was asked a question about abortion in pregnancies resulting from rape. I'm sure the Dems think he's a dumb-shit (and he may be), but you have to be prepared to do some serious mental gymnastics to read his answer to that question as some version of "the rape God's will."
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So the rape wasn't God's will, but the baby was? How do you parse that theologically? See, this is a big part of the problem of bringing a deity into the discussion -- you end up spinning things around until you and the deity both look like assholes.

In case you missed it:
http://whatever.scalzi.com/2012/10/25/a-fan-letter-to-certain-conservative-politicians/

GeorgeFHayek · Oct 30, 2012

Re: THE 2012 POLITICS THREAD

Dick Whitman said:

GeorgeFHayek said:

Dick Whitman said:

In this case, Republicans are the ones trying to parse the quote to death. The conception was God's will, but not the rape? That's a pretty generous interpretation of what he said.
Click to expand...

Come on ... the Dems are the ones with the pretty generous interpretation. He was asked a question about abortion in pregnancies resulting from rape. I'm sure the Dems think he's a dumb-shit (and he may be), but you have to be prepared to do some serious mental gymnastics to read his answer to that question as some version of "the rape God's will."
Click to expand...

I completely disagree. It's not at all obvious that he didn't mean that. Not at all. In fact, the benefit of the doubt goes the other direction. Reading his sentence, the burden is absolutely on him to explain why we shouldn't intepret it that way.
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Does the full quote help? "I struggled with it myself for a long time, but I came to realize that life is that gift from God, and I think even when life begins in that horrible situation of rape, that it is something God intended to happen."

And then, of course, he did explain why we shouldn't interpret it as "rape is God's will": "Are you trying to suggest somehow that God preordained rape, no I don't think that. Anyone who would suggest that is just sick and twisted. No, that's not even close to what I said."

If you don't buy his argument, fine. Plenty of reasonable people disagree with him. As we talked about it earlier, you don't have to bring God into this discussion for a no-rape-exception position to make sense. Not that I am advocating that position. It's just reasonable.

But saying that he said that rape is "God's will"? With or without avocados and guacamole, that's bush league, bro.

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