FROM 2012 INTO 2013 POLITICS THREAD

Riptide · Oct 30, 2012

Re: THE 2012 POLITICS THREAD

Big Circus said:

God to skeezy rapist guy: "Hey man, I really, really want this lady to get pregnant with your baby. In fact, it's my intention that that happen. How you get that done is up to you."
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That was awesome.

Big Circus · Oct 30, 2012

Re: THE 2012 POLITICS THREAD

Riptide said:

Big Circus said:

God to skeezy rapist guy: "Hey man, I really, really want this lady to get pregnant with your baby. In fact, it's my intention that that happen. How you get that done is up to you."
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That was awesome.
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Just think how much more awesome it would be if I could have posted pictures of God and SRG with it. DAMN YOU, MODDY!

Dick Whitman · Oct 30, 2012

Re: THE 2012 POLITICS THREAD

GeorgeFHayek said:

Dick Whitman said:

GeorgeFHayek said:

Dick Whitman said:

In this case, Republicans are the ones trying to parse the quote to death. The conception was God's will, but not the rape? That's a pretty generous interpretation of what he said.
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Come on ... the Dems are the ones with the pretty generous interpretation. He was asked a question about abortion in pregnancies resulting from rape. I'm sure the Dems think he's a dumb-shit (and he may be), but you have to be prepared to do some serious mental gymnastics to read his answer to that question as some version of "the rape God's will."
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I completely disagree. It's not at all obvious that he didn't mean that. Not at all. In fact, the benefit of the doubt goes the other direction. Reading his sentence, the burden is absolutely on him to explain why we shouldn't intepret it that way.
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Does the full quote help? "I struggled with it myself for a long time, but I came to realize that life is that gift from God, and I think even when life begins in that horrible situation of rape, that it is something God intended to happen."
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I don't know how you can read that quote and think that it's outlandish - or "sick and twisted" - to include the rape as part of the collection of occurrences that "God intended to happen." It's what he said. It may not be what he meant. But it's what he said.

Inky_Wretch · Oct 30, 2012

Re: THE 2012 POLITICS THREAD

Bob Cook said:

GeorgeFHayek said:

Dick Whitman said:

In this case, Republicans are the ones trying to parse the quote to death. The conception was God's will, but not the rape? That's a pretty generous interpretation of what he said.
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Come on ... the Dems are the ones with the pretty generous interpretation. He was asked a question about abortion in pregnancies resulting from rape. I'm sure the Dems think he's a dumb-shit (and he may be), but you have to be prepared to do some serious mental gymnastics to read his answer to that question as some version of "the rape God's will."
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So the rape wasn't God's will, but the baby was? How do you parse that theologically? See, this is a big part of the problem of bringing a deity into the discussion -- you end up spinning things around until you and the deity both look like assholes.

In case you missed it:
http://whatever.scalzi.com/2012/10/25/a-fan-letter-to-certain-conservative-politicians/
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So he is against abortion in the case of rape because the baby was God's will.

But he's OK with it if the mother's life is in danger, even though that's God's will too?

GeorgeFHayek · Oct 30, 2012

Re: THE 2012 POLITICS THREAD

Dick Whitman said:

I don't know how you can read that quote and think that it's outlandish - or "sick and twisted" - to include the rape as part of the collection of occurrences that "God intended to happen." It's what he said. It may not be what he meant. But it's what he said.
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I don't read that and think it's outlandish - or "sick and twisted" -- to, at first blush, interpret what he said that way. I don't read his follow-up quote as saying that, either. I read his follow-up quote (which, as I understand it, was in answer to a question as well) as saying that thinking that God preordains rape is just sick and twisted.

Nevertheless, given your placing the burden of proof on him to clarify/explain, did he or didn't he? When he said "... to suggest somehow that God preordained rape, no I don't think that. Anyone who would suggest that is just sick and twisted," do you still take away that he meant to say that "rape is God's will'? Or do you think he's simply trying to obfuscate his women-aren't-deserving-of-sexual-agency agenda?

Dick Whitman · Oct 30, 2012

Re: THE 2012 POLITICS THREAD

GeorgeFHayek said:

Dick Whitman said:

I don't know how you can read that quote and think that it's outlandish - or "sick and twisted" - to include the rape as part of the collection of occurrences that "God intended to happen." It's what he said. It may not be what he meant. But it's what he said.
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I don't read that and think it's outlandish - or "sick and twisted" -- to, at first blush, interpret what he said that way. I don't read his follow-up quote as saying that, either. I read his follow-up quote (which, as I understand it, was in answer to a question as well) as saying that thinking that God preordains rape is just sick and twisted.

Nevertheless, given your placing the burden of proof on him to clarify/explain, did he or didn't he? When he said "... to suggest somehow that God preordained rape, no I don't think that. Anyone who would suggest that is just sick and twisted," do you still take away that he meant to say that "rape is God's will'? Or do you think he's simply trying to obfuscate his women-aren't-deserving-of-sexual-agency agenda?
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I believe him, yes.

At the same time, I think that his parceling of "God's will" into convenient little pieces is ridiculous.

LongTimeListener · Oct 30, 2012

Re: THE 2012 POLITICS THREAD

It's really unfair to base your opinion on his direct quote.

Boom_70 · Oct 30, 2012

Re: THE 2012 POLITICS THREAD

Moving the Hi Sandy politics to this thread. Christie has been effusive in praise of Obama and the response of FEMA. No hint of politics in anything he has done. His only criticism has been directed towards the mayor of Atlantic City who went against Christie evacuation order and allowed people to stay. Christie said that the state sent 65 buses to AC that few took advantage of. Shades of Katrina.

Both Christie and Cuomo have shown great leadership through the crisis. Malloy seems over caffeinated.

LongTimeListener · Oct 30, 2012

Re: THE 2012 POLITICS THREAD

At what point is/will it be appropriate to ask Romney if he still believes we'd be better off with this work being done not by FEMA but by private contractors?

GeorgeFHayek · Oct 30, 2012

Re: THE 2012 POLITICS THREAD

Dick Whitman said:

... I think that his parceling of "God's will" into convenient little pieces is ridiculous.
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Yet again, we agree.

Inky_Wretch · Oct 30, 2012

Re: THE 2012 POLITICS THREAD

LongTimeListener said:

At what point is/will it be appropriate to ask Romney if he still believes we'd be better off with this work being done not by FEMA but by private contractors?
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When he's making his photo op tour of the damaged areas.

hondo · Oct 30, 2012

Re: THE 2012 POLITICS THREAD

dixiehack said:

Dick Whitman said:

I don't love the compromises that both Obama and Romney have been willing to make to keep themselves electable - for example, the non-existence of climate change as an issue in this election.

However, I can't get on board with the growing chorus that this is a vote between two terrible candidates. I'm far from a huge Romney fan, and certainly not a fan of Paul Ryan's Ayn Rand b.s., but the four men on the national ticket are all intelligent, highly educated, highly accomplished, highly articulate, and scandal-free (with the exception of Biden and his speech cribbing in 1988).

Is it just reflexive nowadays to bitch about the two choices in any given election? I understand the desire for a third party to keep these two honest, at the least, but people seem to think that they are choosing between two incompetent boobs. They aren't.
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The fact that Romney's serial lying isn't a scandal damns America more than anything Jeremiah Wright could dream up.
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The problem with some of you people who love to throw the "liar" word around is that you define "lying" to include some or all of the following:

1. Modifying a previous position (Was Obama lying about closing Gitmo? It's still there).
2. Getting one or two points about a position or previous statement muddled (The Obama administration has been so crystal-clear on Benghazi).
3. Making an honest mistake (Democrats seem to have invented "walking back").
4. Adjusting to the audience (do you honestly think candidates say the same thing in Wisconsin or New Hampshire as they do in Georgia or Florida?)
5. Your interpretation of what the politician said.
6. Or simply politicians being politicians. Every single one of them -- EVERY SINGLE ONE -- has said one thing, meant the other, talked out of both sides of their mouths, etc.

You guys on both sides are throwing that L-word around too much. Try to do better because your guy is just as bad, whoever he might be.

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FROM 2012 INTO 2013 POLITICS THREAD

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