FROM 2012 INTO 2013 POLITICS THREAD

Michael_ Gee · Nov 5, 2012

Re: THE 2012 POLITICS THREAD

Lugnuts, the House Republicans, the soul of their party, have repeatedly voted that disaster relief be paid for by cuts in social programs or not funded at all. Individualism is a force so powerful as to breed actual psychosis.

LongTimeListener · Nov 5, 2012

Re: THE 2012 POLITICS THREAD

Link rounds up eight prominent conservatives' electoral map.

http://www.mercurynews.com/politics-national/2012/11/seven-people-predicting-a-romney-win-on-election-day/

Dick Morris has 325-213 Romney. George Will is more modest at 321-217.

dooley_womack1 · Nov 5, 2012

Re: THE 2012 POLITICS THREAD

The only thing that could possibly suborn those viewpoints: "Rich and old people vote the most reliably. And Nate Silver is out to get us."

Inky_Wretch · Nov 5, 2012

Re: THE 2012 POLITICS THREAD

Obama just got Chris Christie's vote ...

COLUMBUS, Ohio — On what is supposed to be a day focused on swing states, New Jersey continues to pop up. White House spokesman Jay Carney confirms that Mr. Obama put Mr. Springsteen on the phone with New Jersey Governor Chris Christie while the president and the Boss were flying to Columbus from Madison, Wis. on Air Force One.

Mr. Christie, a Republican, is well known as one of the biggest Bruce fans ever, but he’s not gotten love from Mr. Springsteen, a die-hard Democrat, in the past. Mr. Springsteen is notorious for not inviting Mr. Christie backstage that the more than 100 concerts that his No. 1 fan has attended.

But in these days of bipartisan bonhomie between Mr. Obama and Mr. Christie post-storm, who better to serve as yenta between the Boss and his fan? The president!

Mr. Christie promptly relayed the fact of the phone call to reporters. When asked, Mr. Carney confirmed: “When POTUS told the governor he had someone who wanted to speak with him, Springsteen, who was using the handset across the table from the president, said, “Governor, this is Bruce.”

— Helene Cooper
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Baron Scicluna · Nov 5, 2012

Re: THE 2012 POLITICS THREAD

Dick Whitman said:

old_tony said:

Azrael said:

Dick Whitman said:

RickStain said:

Baron Scicluna said:

RickStain said:

Inky_Wretch said:

Romney avoided $100m in taxes?

http://politicalwire.com/archives/2012/11/05/romney_avoided_taxes_through_netherlands.html
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Good for him if he did.
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Gotta love his patriotism.
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He believes, as does very roughly half the country, that our country is founded and run on the idea that everybody should act in their own self-interest, and that the net result of that is the best way to move the country forward.

There is nothing unpatriotic about acting in your own best interests within the rules. Within a certain, common worldview, it's the *most* patriotic thing you can do.
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Where is the "Like" button?
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Where in the founding literature of this country is "self-interest" promoted as a means or an end?

"Self-interest" may or may not be a bedrock principle of capitalism or a market economy, but the "common good" would seem to me a basic premise of democratic government.
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Suggesting people get a job instead of leach off the makers would seem to go toward the "common good."
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Stupid soldiers. Stupid old, retired people.
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Stupid employees for getting laid off so their CEOs can collect bonuses.

Azrael · Nov 5, 2012

Re: THE 2012 POLITICS THREAD

GeorgeFHayek said:

Azrael said:

I asked to see where "self-interest" - as the phrase in all its late Randian grandeur and exclusionary Darwinism is currently understood - was written into the founding documents as our operative philosophy.

"Enlightened self-interest," per Smith and de Tocqueville, was the phrase of art several centuries gone by. Whatever happened to that?
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You're not usually prone to goalpost-moving, so I may be mis-interpreting what you're getting at here. The founders, in launching this country, were acting on their Locke-ean inclinations. The idea of enlightened self-interest ("doing well by doing good") would not have been one of their leading lights. And while economic liberty as they understood it would be different from how we understand it, it's not remotely at odds with self-interest as it's widely understood today.
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Not trying to move the goalposts so much as suggest that we've come to overvalue - ridiculously so, as is often demonstrated by the "libertarians" here - the zero-sum 'self-interest' side of the American equation. While you and I could certainly argue the nuances of 'rational self-interest' vs 'enlightened self-interest' in theory and practice, I'd ask if either term could be applied to the sub-prime/CDI apocalypse brought down on us by Wall Street. Or to the war in Iraq, for that matter.

"Self-interest" sold as snakeoil, a cure-all closed system and with no reference to the greater good or the town green or the management of critical resources, like air and water and human life, is antithetical to democracy.

RickStain · Nov 5, 2012

Re: THE 2012 POLITICS THREAD

The whole point is that we're supposed to tweak the rules if self-interest becomes destructive. If individual self-interest playing by the rules hurts the whole, then it's the rules that failed and not the person.

nmmetsfan · Nov 5, 2012

Re: THE 2012 POLITICS THREAD

I don't see a Romney landslide happening. An Obama landslide is possible if a state like Virginia and/or Florida break his way and the momentum carries.

Of the eight in LTL's link, only Sanchez and Domenech has a realistic chance of happening. Last week I thought it would happen, but I don't think Romney's carried his late momentum and the likelihood is Obama winning Ohio and Wisconsin to lock it up. (No way in hell is PA, MI or MN actually in play).

Moderator1 · Nov 5, 2012

Re: THE 2012 POLITICS THREAD

so who wins? Romney? Or does Obama pull the "upset?"

trifectarich · Nov 5, 2012

Re: THE 2012 POLITICS THREAD

If Dick Morris wants to back his prediction with a wager worth a couple of bucks, I hope he still has my number.

LongTimeListener · Nov 5, 2012

Re: THE 2012 POLITICS THREAD

nmmetsfan said:

I don't see a Romney landslide happening. An Obama landslide is possible if a state like Virginia and/or Florida break his way and the momentum carries.

Of the eight in LTL's link, only Sanchez and Domenech has a realistic chance of happening. Last week I thought it would happen, but I don't think Romney's carried his late momentum and the likelihood is Obama winning Ohio and Wisconsin to lock it up. (No way in hell is PA, MI or MN actually in play).
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If they have voter shenanigans up their sleeve -- which I don't doubt -- the GOP should limit the use to barely enough rather than a rout. A rout might actually make people see the criminality.

nmmetsfan · Nov 5, 2012

Re: THE 2012 POLITICS THREAD

I don't doubt some shenanigans, but to say that only the GOP participates in such acts is either naive or intellectually dishonest

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FROM 2012 INTO 2013 POLITICS THREAD

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FROM 2012 INTO 2013 POLITICS THREAD

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