FROM 2012 INTO 2013 POLITICS THREAD

Baron Scicluna · Sep 30, 2012

Re: THE 2012 POLITICS THREAD

Norrin Radd said:

Bubbler said:

Let's say for a moment that the Christie's, the Daniels, and a few others who sat out, had a chance. And they might have.

Let's also say they feel at least as strongly anti-Obama as Romney, perhaps even more so, perhaps in line with the other GOP candidates. If you assume that, you can also safely assume that they feel the country is headed in the wrong direction.

If they believe that, how cynical is it for them to sit out and wait four years so they can be more electable? Do they believe in public service? Why aren't they patriotic enough to take the harder road to the Oval Office and run now if they feel the country is going to hell? Or is it all just about an easier path to election, consequences to the nation be damned?

Wait ... don't answer that. We already know the answer.
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As if this doesn't happen with politicians every time there is a strong incumbent.

Think there's a bit of a rush to pin all the possible "BAD behaviors!!!" on the GOP. The piling on here - and elsewhere - shows a lack of historical understanding, and a lack of foresight.

It was just four years ago that "The GOP is a REGIONAL PARTY!!!!!!!" and wasn't going to have any kind of shot at anything for two decades. Yet, even with a base that hasn't grown, they're not going away.
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Of course they're not going away. They have plenty of unlimited money they can harvest from the people* for campaign contributions.

* People of course, referring to corporations.

Baron Scicluna · Sep 30, 2012

Re: THE 2012 POLITICS THREAD

Norrin Radd said:

Meatie Pie said:

Baron Scicluna said:

Meatie Pie said:

So the Tea Party would rather get its ass kicked in an election.

This will be called by the networks by 9:15 in the east.
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Then the right-wing shriek machine would complain about how the "libruhl media!" is trying to discourage West Coast voters from voting by proclaiming they're already saying who won.
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There is no solution for their pathology. I'd suggest getting over themselves, educating themselves or balancing their hatred for people who might see and accomplish things another way, but what's the use.
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I'm not sure a strong dislike/hatred "for people who might see and accomplish things another way" is emblematic only of the GOP.
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Meh, wake me up when 4,000 American soldiers die for a lie/inaccurate information.

YankeeFan · Sep 30, 2012

Re: THE 2012 POLITICS THREAD

Baron Scicluna said:

Meh, wake me up when 4,000 American soldiers die for a lie/inaccurate information.
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Who are you blaming for these deaths?

Nearly nine years passed before American forces reached their first 1,000 dead in the war. The second 1,000 came just 27 months later, a testament to the intensity of fighting prompted by President Obama’s decision to send 33,000 additional troops to Afghanistan in 2010, a policy known as the surge.

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/08/22/us/war-in-afghanistan-claims-2000th-american-life.html?pagewanted=all&_r=0
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Just a couple more yesterday as, "joint operations between American and Afghan forces were said to be returning to normal."

Only two days after joint operations between American and Afghan forces were said to be returning to normal, five people — two Americans and three Afghans — were killed when a pitched battle broke out between soldiers of the two sides, American and Afghan officials said Sunday.

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/10/01/world/asia/suspected-insider-attack-in-afghanistan.html
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LongTimeListener · Sep 30, 2012

Re: THE 2012 POLITICS THREAD

Hmmm. I'm sure failing to realize Baron was talking about Iraq was an accidental oversight on your part.

YankeeFan · Sep 30, 2012

Re: THE 2012 POLITICS THREAD

LongTimeListener said:

Hmmm. I'm sure failing to realize Baron was talking about Iraq was an accidental oversight on your part.
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So, deaths under Obama don't matter?

LongTimeListener · Sep 30, 2012

Re: THE 2012 POLITICS THREAD

Yeah, exactly what I'm saying. Jesus Christ, at least make an attempt not to be a dishonest toolbag when it comes to politics.

The Afghanistan war is/was for sound reasons. The Iraq war was the lie. And it prolonged the Afghanistan war from a three-year operation to now 10 years.

YankeeFan · Sep 30, 2012

Re: THE 2012 POLITICS THREAD

LongTimeListener said:

Yeah, exactly what I'm saying. Jesus Christ, at least make an attempt not to be a dishonest toolbag when it comes to politics.

The Afghanistan war is/was for sound reasons. The Iraq war was the lie. And it prolonged the Afghanistan war from a three-year operation to now 10 years.
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Let's assume I agree with you for a minute.

Is Afghanistan going well? Depending on your answer, who deserves the credit or blame?

LongTimeListener · Sep 30, 2012

Re: THE 2012 POLITICS THREAD

It's not going well. Bush deserves the vast majority of the blame because the whole thing should have been taken care of by 2005. I know you want to blame Obama for not snapping his fingers the day he got into office, but the previous administration created an intractable situation. And pulling out now would just be inviting al Qaeda back to re-create its training base out in the open.

Baron Scicluna · Sep 30, 2012

Re: THE 2012 POLITICS THREAD

YankeeFan said:

LongTimeListener said:

Yeah, exactly what I'm saying. Jesus Christ, at least make an attempt not to be a dishonest toolbag when it comes to politics.

The Afghanistan war is/was for sound reasons. The Iraq war was the lie. And it prolonged the Afghanistan war from a three-year operation to now 10 years.
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Let's assume I agree with you for a minute.

Is Afghanistan going well? Depending on your answer, who deserves the credit or blame?
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I'd say it's going about as well as it can. And I don't credit, or blame, either Bush or Obama.

One thing I remember Bush, or one of his people saying when we got in Afghanistan was that we might be there 25 years, because it was such a disaster there. So my expectations weren't that high

Iraq, on the other hand ...., well, you know.

Inky_Wretch · Sep 30, 2012

Re: THE 2012 POLITICS THREAD

Somebody is going to lose his gig at AEI writing things like this.

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/09/30/opinion/sunday/why-obamacare-is-a-conservatives-dream.html?_r=1&pagewanted=all

RickStain · Sep 30, 2012

Re: THE 2012 POLITICS THREAD

Inky_Wretch said:

Somebody is going to lose his gig at AEI writing things like this.

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/09/30/opinion/sunday/why-obamacare-is-a-conservatives-dream.html?_r=1&pagewanted=all
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I've argued this all along. I completely understand why we're having such a heated debate over the bill. But as far as I can tell, 95% of the population has picked the wrong side for their ideology.

Stoney · Sep 30, 2012

Re: THE 2012 POLITICS THREAD

RickStain said:

Inky_Wretch said:

Somebody is going to lose his gig at AEI writing things like this.

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/09/30/opinion/sunday/why-obamacare-is-a-conservatives-dream.html?_r=1&pagewanted=all
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I've argued this all along. I completely understand why we're having such a heated debate over the bill. But as far as I can tell, 95% of the population has picked the wrong side for their ideology.
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Because it's not really about ideology, it's about Rs and Ds. If a D passed it, then Rs must vehemently attack it, those are the rules.

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