Game of Thrones: Spoilers - just like Winter - are coming.

Which then totally defeats the TV presumption that Rob Stark is honorable. Knocked up a random girl thereby breaking his oath to marry another, which caused his death, his mother's and his army's.

Daeny, Arya, Sandor, Sansa, Bran and Jon. All essentially following the rules in an honorable manner, all alive but losing.

 

Which then totally defeats the TV presumption that Rob Stark is honorable. Knocked up a random girl thereby breaking his oath to marry another, which caused his death, his mother's and his army's.

Daeny, Arya, Sandor, Sansa, Bran and Jon. All essentially following the rules in an honorable manner, all alive but losing.
[/quote]

Debatable with regard to Jon, although I suppose he threw his lot in with the honorable side this week. I'd also say that while Dany's "Have the dragons kill the slaver after making the deal" gambit was incredibly awesome, it wasn't what I would call honorable.

And Sandor? Was he included by accident?

 

Debatable with regard to Jon, although I suppose he threw his lot in with the honorable side this week. I'd also say that while Dany's "Have the dragons kill the slaver after making the deal" gambit was incredibly awesome, it wasn't what I would call honorable.

And Sandor? Was he included by accident?
[/quote]SAndor, like Brienne, is honorable (in context) because he has a devotion to Arya and his duty. He's also capable of growth, like Jaime, who started out just a killing machine but as receives kindness learns to repay it and develops loyalty as a matter of respect rather than as an obligation

 

The only person, so far, to have a standard hero's arc is Jamie. And everyone hates him.

People seem to think the books are about the Starks, but I don't think so. The theory that the books are about the ongoing war between the Lord of Light, the old and new gods, and they're using people to fight their battles is the one I've chosen.

 

The books are about "Here's a cool setting I imagined with lots of potential for blow-up, now let's imagine how it would play out."

Or less charitably, "Let's see how many times I can make you care about someone then fuck them over."

Also, yes:
https://twitter.com/redweddingtears

 

I am with you, but even under that interpretation, the Starks are a pretty important part of the Ice half of the Song of Ice and Fire.

Also, if R+L=J and Jon Snow is not actually dead... He's still got some important stuff to do.

 

Yeah, who knows if Jon Snow is going to make it. Being a heroic-type character and getting jumped by your own men in Martin's world usually means one thing.

 

It seems like most of the hardcore fans are absolutely convinced Jon Snow is still alive. I really hope not. It's just so perfect how many times GRRM can get people to think "OK, for realz this time, *this* guy is a hero and has plot armor."

I hope Dany dies in the next one.

 

I'm pretty convinced R+L=Hodor, actually. ....


Seriously though - having read twice, the second time specifically seeking evidence it was true, I'm convinced R+L=J, and that in some way J and D are going to come together with her dragons, and maybe him warging into a dragon, to defeat the others to save Westeros.

I mean come on .... the last book can't end with the last character you care about dead, can it????

 

Baelish is going to come out on top in the end (that's why Tommy Carcetti is playing him!). If you know what's coming, you know he set everything that's happened in motion. And with the way Martin operates, it's his MO to have some little punk ass back stabber to be the man.

 

I needed this today.

“I know about the promise,” ….“Maester Theomore, tell them! A thousand years before the Conquest, a promise was made, and oaths were sworn in the Wolf's Den before the old gods and the new. When we were sore beset and friendless, hounded from our homes and in peril of our lives, the wolves took us in and nourished us and protected us against our enemies. The city is built upon the land they gave us. In return we swore that we should always be their men. Stark men!”

-- Wylla Manderly

 

So maybe the story arch for the Stark clan is - for the Stark children to save the world, first they've all got to stop being starks.

Surely all these kids are going to be reunited in some way to save the world at the finish, right?

But first ...

- Arya is a faceless man, not a Stark.
- Sansa is going to rule the Eyrie, but not as a Stark.
- Jon Snow had to come back from beyond the wall and truly become a man of the night's watch, not a Stark.
- Bran had to go live in the tree.
- Rickon ... I got nothing ....
- And Robb Stark could never, ever be anything but a Stark, so he had to die.