George W. Bush is ...

If dealing with the Middle East is a primary factor in judging an American presidency then every man who has held that office in the last 60 years is a failure.

 

A_QB :

How many other presidents launched pre-emptive war in the region with the stated goal of remaking a nation in our own image?

It's a false comparison. And again, Bush himself has said this. He's confident that history will find peace and American-style democracy throughout the Middle East as a result of our invasion of Iraq. He gave speeches about it and everything.

 

This is awesome. Thanks for posting, Mr. O'Reilly.

 

Actually, you would have to give GHWB high marks for MidEast diplomacy.

My problem with judging Bush's place in history right now is that we have no idea how Iraq will turn out. If Iraq becomes a peaceful and secular Islamic nation, similiar to Turkey, Bush's historical stock will rise considerably. If Iraq's example encourages democratic undercurrents in other nations (i.e. Iran), Bush will become legendary for remaking the Middle East. If Iraq turns into a civil war followed by a despotic Islamic state, Bush will definitely head toward the bottom. Anyone who claims they can predict today all of the end results of the Iraq war is a partisan or a fool and probably both. We can't fully judge Bush for at least 20 years. We also probably won't know the exact nature of how civil liberties were impacted and if the impact is permanent until well after Bush has left office. My initial thoughts are that Bush will be regarded very similiar to LBJ: a man who had a real chance for greatness, but whose demons shouted down his better angels. And Rumsfeld will be lucky to be regarded in the same class as the dismal failure of McNamara.

 

PDB, when it comes to his work abroad, I agree with you on Bush not being ready for judgement for another 20 years. However, I believe it's absolutely fair to judge a president's presidency as a whole, and specifically in terms of economy, quality of life, and basically "did he leave the place in better shape than he got it" right away. The minute he steps onto the helicopter to head back to Crawford. And I don't think the results of that judgement will be kind.

 

Because you've lived through how many of them? :

I'm not saying he is or isn't, but for anyone to make a sweeping statement like this is idiotic.

 

I disagree. If you judge Calvin Coolidge in March 1929 on those terms, he is a smashing success. Judge him in the context of the Great Depression as an oncoming train that he did nothing to prevent, he doesn't look so good. Until we have a firm grasp on how the dotcom collapse affected the economy, how much of the economy is his fault versus how it much is residue from Clinton, etc., we can't judge Bush.

 

I'm in disagreement with most of the people on the board because I think that Iraq has been a success and will prove to be a success in the long run.

2 of the 18 provinces in Iraq are now fully under Iraqi control (with more to follow). There are only 6 provinces that will be real problems. Sure Baghdad is unsafe right now but it only slightly more unsafe than Mexico City (or even some parts of Detroit).

The infrastructure of the country continues to be rebuilt - Baghdad residents enjoyed similar electrical service to residents of NYC or St Louis this year. The standard of living continues to rise. And for those who like to talk about fatalities - before the war UNICEF estimated that 5,000 children under 5-years old were dying PER month. The total number of civilian deaths (at the high estimate and for all ages) since the start of the war is 37,000 total.

If you like the enviornment then consider the Marsh Arabs of Iraq and how Saddam Hussein destroyed the Tigris-Euphrates river and marsh systems. This is an area that covers over 59 million acres in what many believe was the Biblical area that included the Garden of Eden. The ecology of the Tigris-Euphrates river system is being restored as we speak under the Bush administration but when is the last time you heard a peep about the Marsh Arabs and their environment in the main stream media?

 

Lou,

How is the Iraqi Kool-Aid? Is it as tasty as Kool-Aid in Mexico City or Detroit?

 

Wow, we just went from "we need 20 years to figure out how good Bush was" to "Bush has saved the world, starting with Bible-land." My God, Chris, you're a fucking genius.

 

If you were to read Chris' stuff and assume it was fact, George W. Bush is Jesus Christ returned.

 

I'm sticking with Anti-Christ (though, in truth, I expected a little more pizazz from the Anti-Christ).