Get the jumper cables, electrodes, bamboo shoots and water board ready

Somebody please explain exactly what "water boarding" is. I know that it's nearly drowning someone, but what the hell is a "water board," or is that just a term?

 

AQB: The definition of torture is trying to define torture -- attempting to list all the ways possible to hurt someone. You know what it is, though, just like everyone else. Leave it undefined and able to cover a broad range. That's best for everyone, us included.

I am tired of hearing people (and I'm not talking about anyone in particular on this board) attempting to accuse the people who are against this defining of article 3 as being "soft" towards terrorists. It's bullshit.

I don't give two shits what happens to a terrorist who has killed innocent people. Chop him into small pieces and hand him out for fish food. Fine by me.

What I do care about are the U.S. service people who might be harmed by this. And a close second, it pains me to think that this country might stoop to the level of employing barbaric and inhumane methods for any purpose. Why those two things would weigh less to anyone, no matter the end gains, is simply unimaginable to me. How you can in one breath criticize a group of people for their tactics and then in the next breath advocate for the use of some of those tactics seems very hypocritical.

There is only one real way to fight the problem of terrorism -- intelligence.

The issue of terrorism is not one that we face alone. Numerous other countries face the same problems, including quite a few that we have virtually no working relationship with. For whatever reason (I suspect sheer stupidity), the Bush administration has allowed the relationships we have with several countries to deteriorate to almost non-existent levels. That's a big blow to this fight.

Because of the technology and the ever-decreasing price of that technology, the world is a much smaller place today than it was just a decade ago. Hell, than it was just five years ago. That is both a problem and a solution. Because the technology makes it so much easier, we will forever be at risk here. But because of that technology and our ability to purchase and develop the top of the line equipment, it makes it that much easier to track terrorists.

The money we've dumped into the worthless Iraq war would have been 10 times more beneficial to us had it been used for upgrading and repairing our intelligence agencies, making sure we have the right equipment and the right people to adequately track these groups. The clandestine agents, the analysts and the thousands of informants are the people with the ability to make the most significant impact in this, not the guys with guns.

These terrorists don't give a shit about attacking our army. Oh, they'll do it, but it makes no difference to them whether or not the American they kill had on a uniform or was shopping for clothes. We will not stop these people from thinking. You can attempt to spread democracy to every country in the world, it won't matter. You still won't be able to change the minds of these people, just like no one could ever convince me or any other American that democracy and our way of life is wrong. It's ingrained from birth in these people that this country is evil and is somehow responsible for their problems. You can't fight that.

All you can do is attempt to contain the actions of those people. That will take a complete shift in mindset by us. The gathering of information and the intricate tracking of these people will have to become top priority. Working with other countries to develop an intelligence-sharing system is a must.

And none of that requires this country to stoop to the level of torture. Torturing these people only strengthens their beliefs that we're evil. And it places this country in a position of losing the respect of the countries we have behind us now.

 

http://abcnews.go.com/WNT/Investigation/story?id=1322866

 

The Army's definition of waterbaording is to lay one on an inclined board (feet above head) and pour water on the face and up the nose to give the feeling of drowning.

 

The playing of loud music is torture? Or is it an acceptable interrogation technique?

Sleep depravation is torture? Or is it an acceptable interrogation technique?

Locking someone in a cold (or hot) cell is torture? Or is it an acceptable interrogation technique?

 

Well, that pretty much sounds like it would suck.

 

Borderline acceptable:


Rises to the level of torture:

 

I wonder reliable that confession was.

 

Here's one of the biggest problems I have. Those who support, or at least don't oppose, torture use the argument that nothing is too awful for terrorists. But here's the thing: We have virtually no way of knowing that the people we round up are, in fact, terrorists. While I suspect that many of those at Guantanamo and say they were taxi drivers or whatever are lying, I also feel quite confident that there are at least some who were simply in the wrong place at the wrong time.

So much of the problem with the way we treat detainees is the presumption of guilt, which flies in the face of the basis of our judicial system. That's what's essentially at the core of the tribunals issue as well: Bush et. al wish to make their rules based on the assumption that the guys being tried are guilty. They want to withhold evidence because we can't have secret information in the hands of terrorists, even though we haven't convicted them of anything yet.

The ones who are terrorists deserve no protections whatsoever. But giving people more than they deserve is what makes us better than they are. We say so often that we're protecting the greatest way of life in the world. But we're coming dangerously close to not having that anymore, to not being the greatest country in the world anymore.

Everyone agrees that locking up random Japanese during World War II was an atrocity, but we were in an actual war with Japanese people. We're not, at least not yet, at war with the entire Muslim population, but I get the sinking feeling that we're rounding up a lot of people just for being brown and having a beard. Maybe I'm wrong. I hope so.

 

The guys at Gitmo weren't picked up off the street. They were picked up on the battlefield. They shouldn't fall under the Geneva Conventions because they aren't a part of a nation's armed forces.

 

A_QB, that is flat out wrong. About a dozen "suspects" at Gitmo were held there for over 1-full year after it was determined that they weren't terrorists at all. They were released to Norway, I think. They weren't picked up in some battlefield.

If you plan on arguing about where people are detained, maybe you should obtain a few facts.

As an aside, if those innocents were tortured, that's pretty fucked up.

 

Saw the last part of this doc last night on CBC. You can watch the whole thing online at PBS.

It's called "The Torture Question" and it's two hours long.

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/torture/