Greatest Catcher in Baseball History

broadwayjoe, let me explain why I said what I did. I spent close to 40 years in press boxes and used a great deal of that time talking to the likes of Ralph Kiner, Vin Scully and guys who are no longer with us, like Jack Lang, Charlie Fox, Buddy Kerr, Bus Saidt, Larry Doby, people who saw many of the greats play. Kiner still tells great stories about Honus Wagner, Hank Greenberg and others.

Again, you are more than entitled to your opinion, based on stats. I made my choice based on my own eyes and ears after watching and hearing about the players in question. Bench was the best all-around catcher, in my opinion. Berra would be a good choice for second.

Thanks for listening to another opinion.

 

Casty, I totally respect your opinion, and I realize that as someone who has been around the game for so long, you have plenty of information to back it up. I didn't mean to suggest otherwise.

For the record, I have no strong opinion as to who the best catcher of all time was. It might very well be Bench, for all I know. I was just trying to make the larger point that in my opinion Negro League players tend to get unfairly overlooked in these sorts of best-ever debates, in part because their names aren't as familiar, having been ignored by baseball historians for so long. I also think that most people accept the accomplishments of white players from the segregated, pre-1947 MLB at face value, when in fact they are diminished significantly by the fact that they did not play against all of the best competition from their era. Discussions about the best of all-time in baseball tend to be skewed for those reasons, I believe.

You may be an exception to all this, because of your access to first-hand accounts from those days. Most people's opinions, though, aren't quite so educated. Hope that makes sense.

 

You need to convince me, convince me, convince me that Bench was better than Yogi.

What the fuck are you doing?

/ multiple cross-threading

 

I voted for Gibson -- those numbers are something else.

 

Casty I would hope I speak for everyone at sj in wanting to here who your all time team would be in addition to Bench at catcher.

 

You really can't go by the numbers on Gibson or any other Negro Leaguer, because the totals from league play are very poorly documented (plus they didn't play nearly as many league games per season as MLB teams), and in the out-of-league barnstorming games, they were playing against sandlot teams, semipros, pickup teams and city league beer leaguers.

Gibson's career HR total in the Negro Leagues, according to the always-reliable Wikipedia, was 224, and I have read various apocryphal accounts where he is credited with "over 800" and "nearly 1,000" career homers in "all games." Probably neither one gives a real picture of what he would have done in the majors, but pretty much everybody who ever saw him play say he would have challenged Ruth's season records. Since he died early, at 35, it's doubtful he would have reached 714, but we'll never know.

Defensively, Gibson supposedly started out very rough and raw, but became a very good defensive catcher as his career went on. Baserunning was always a bigger part of Negro League play than in the majors during the same time period, so Gibson's defensive skills were probably more important than MLB catchers of the same era (Bill Dickey, Gabby Hartnett, Rick Ferrell and Ernie Lombardi the HOFs from the era, although Lombardi and Ferrell were very borderline).

 

I always wonder what Tony Conigliaro would have done had he not been beaned.

 

Or Smokey Joe Wood if he had not blown out his arm.

 

One of the players in "Blackball Stars" said Gibson was overrated (my term) because he couldn't hit a curveball.

 

Tiger homer here.

But Freehan should be in the top 10-15. 11 All Star games, 5 Gold Gloves, 2 top-3 MVP finishes. 200 HR from a position that -- Piazza aside -- is not historically a powerhouse offensive position.

I won't argue that he's a Hall of Famer, but certainly among the best ever at his position. Criminally underrated -- he and Ted Simmons seem to the be the long-forgotten studs at that position. Bias against native Detroiters?

I'd put Lance Parrish in the top 15-20 as well. Again, nowhere near a HOF-caliber player, but a hell of a lot better than people remember.

 

Boom: Wow, interesting question. All-time team at each position. Believe me, this is difficult and hardly automatic. But I'll give it a quick try without studying stats just yet. (And, believe me, all opinions are accepted and just as valid as mine).

1B: Lou Gehrig
2B: Rogers Hornsby
SS: Honus Wagner
3B: Mike Schmidt
OF: Hank Aaron
OF: Willie Mays
OF: Babe Ruth
C: Johnny Bench
RHP: Walter Johnson
LHP: Warren Spahn

Believe me, this is impossible. How could there be a team without Ted Williams? Ty Cobb? I don't know. I'd love to have Frank Robinson on my team but I don't know who to remove. And third base provides many problems. It's just that I personally saw Schmidt enough to have him in there ahead of some others.

Who did I forget? Help.