Hey Keith What Do You Think Of Tom Coughlin Now ?

He ripped his kicker after the first and second wiff at the Green Bay game. Had he had an asthma field like Jimmy Johnson, he'd probably sent him there.

 

Fining players last year because they were less than five minutes early for team meetings. Tom had to seriously cut back on that this year.
I just remember the year he took BC to Tampa for a bowl game and didn't let his boys have fun of any kind while Tennessee went to the beach, saw the sights and had a good time. Tom had them so entirely focused on the game that Tennessee kicked their asses back to Chestnut Hill.

 

Nothing wrong with a coach jumping down the throat of a player who screwed up. Oh yeah, kickers need to be coddled.

 

Most great coaches can walk that fine line between belittling and motivating.

Coughlin is old school. In today's world Vince Lombardi would have made Tom Coughlin look like Pete Carroll.

If you win most is viewed at "motivating". If you lose it becomes "belittling"

 

A few years ago, when the NFC East coaches were Joe Gibbs, Andy Reid, Bill Parcells and Tom Coughlin, what do you think the odds would have been that Coughlin would be the next of those coaches to get a ring?

 

If Coughlin is "old school" then what were Gibbs and Walsh? I've always found it a little silly that people think you have to be a tyrant to motivate people. Gibbs won one more Super Bowl than Parcells and he never had to imply that one of his players had a vagina to do it. We like to celebrate the grumpy generals because it plays into our idea of what we think masculinity should be.

Let me ask you this Boom: Do you think Coughlin is a "great coach" or a good coach who had the right group of players to put together a great season?

 

I think Coughlin is a good coach but a great leader. For a head coach being a great leader is the more important trait. Coughlin had a good group of players but he had an even better coaching staff that he listened too. Spagnola and Gilbride both did great jobs this year.

Personaly I'v always prefed the tyrant. I came away feeling that I was going to be a better player because tyrant pushed me.

DD Let me ask you -- do you think that Vince Lombardi was a great coach?

 

Boom, I'll bat this one back since DD doesn't seem to be around.

Yes, Lombardi was a great coach. Maybe not tyrannical, but a stern disciplinarian (albeit in an age when players could still be disciplined).

So was Noll.

But Bill Walsh was a great coach, too. And not really much of a martinet.

Being a hard guy is no guarantee of success - any more than being a "players' coach" is an assurance of failure.

And doesn't Mr. Coughlin have to win four more championships before we invoke Lombardi as a point of comparison?

 

Much love, as usual, to Mr. jgmacg for picking up the torch while I was off sipping frosty beverages with a friend.

I too played for tyrants. And some made me better. Some simply made me angry. Some were stupid men who knew very little about life and only slightly more about football. I had coaches who were very hard on me that I adored and respected and those who I would not stop for if they were broken down by the side of the road in the middle of the desert.

My beef is that many of us, whether we have played competitive sports or not, seem to hold up Lombardi as the ideal. Or, in the absence of Lombardi, Parcells. I think this is foolish. I think both Walsh and Gibbs were better coaches than Parcells and Lombardi, but because they did not fit into the Patton model, we do not romanticize them nearly as much. I think Lombardi was a great coach, but I do not think his way is the only way, or even the best way.

 

Grab, grab, grab ... compare compare, compare ... what is going on ... ?
Lombardi, Noll and Walsh are institutions, from three different eras, with different styles.
One no better or less than than the other.
How Coughlin can be mentioned in the same breath with these three is breathtaking?
I'll give Coughlin this much, though, he had to take a lot of dung from his players (some former, others current) and the media before lifting that trophy.
Giants players gave him trouble from day one; if he wants his troops to be at a meeting five mintues early, they should be there five minutes early.
It's not that hard; most of us MAKE A LOT LESS MONEY and manage to be on time. Let them try punching in an out of work, like most people, if they don't like it.
Some things are incomparable, why must we categorize everything?
Why must every thing and every one be compared. GRAB, GRAB, GRAB!!!

 

DD You must have had a coach that made you do too many "up downs". You seem a bit jaded.

I think why many hold Lombardi up as the ideal is because they respect the opinion of the men who played for him. Men who were successful on the field and succesful when they retired from the game. Same for Shula, Landry and Noll.

Here is a list of Super Bowl coaches. Seems like there are more coaches in the Lombardi mold

I 1/15/67 Green Bay Packers NFL
vs Kansas City Chiefs AFL 35 -10 Vince Lombardi
/ Hank Stram Los Angeles, CA
II 1/14/68 Green Bay Packers NFL
vs Oakland Raiders AFL 33-14 Vince Lombardi
/ John Rauch Miami, FL
III 1/12/69 New York Jets AFL
vs Baltimore Colts NFL 16-7 Weeb Ewbank
/ Don Shula Miami, FL
IV 1/11/70 Kansas City Chiefs AFL
vs Minnesota Vikings NFL 23-7 Hank Stram
/ Bud Grant New Orleans, LA
V 1/17/71 Baltimore Colts AFC
vs Dallas Cowboys NFC 16-13 Don McCafferty
/ Tom Landry Miami, FL
VI 1/16/72 Dallas Cowboys NFC
vs Miami Dolphins AFC 24-3 Tom Landry
/ Don Shula New Orleans, LA
VII 1/14/73 Miami Dolphins AFC
vs Washington Redskins NFC 14-7 Don Shula
/ George Allen Los Angeles, CA
VIII 1/13/74 Miami Dolphins AFC
vs Minnesota Vikings NFC 24-7 Don Shula
/ Bud Grant Houston, TX
IX 1/12/75 Pittsburgh Steelers AFC
vs Minnesota Vikings NFC 16-6 Chuck Noll
/ Bud Grant New Orleans, LA
X 1/18/76 Pittsburgh Steelers AFC
vs Dallas Cowboys NFC 21-17 Chuck Noll
/ Tom Landry Miami, FL
XI 1/9/77 Oakland Raiders AFC
vs Minnesota Vikings NFC 32-14 John Madden
/ Bud Grant Pasadena, CA
XII 1/15/78 Dallas Cowboys NFC
vs Denver Broncos AFC 27-10 Tom Landry
/ Red Miller New Orleans, LA
XIII 1/21/79 Pittsburgh Steelers AFC
vs Dallas Cowboys NFC 35-31 Chuck Noll
/ Tom Landry Miami, FL
XIV 1/20/80 Pittsburgh Steelers AFC
vs L.A. Rams NFC 31-19 Chuck Noll
/ Ray Malavasi Pasadena, CA
XV 1/25/81 Oakland Raiders AFC
vs Philadelphia Eagles NFC 27-10 Tom Flores
/ Dick Vermeil New Orleans, LA
XVI 1/24/82 San Francisco 49ers NFC
vs Cincinnati Bengals AFC 26-21 Bill Walsh
/ Forrest Gregg Pontiac, MI
XVII 1/30/83 Washington Redskins NFC
vs Miami Dolphins AFC 27-17 Joe Gibbs
/ Don Shula Pasadena, CA
XVIII 1/22/84 L.A. Raiders AFC
vs Washington Redskins NFC 38-9 Tom Flores
/ Joe Gibbs Tampa, FL
XIX 1/20/85 San Francisco 49ers NFC
vs Miami Dolphins AFC 38-16 Bill Walsh
/ Don Shula Stanford, CA
XX 1/26/86 Chicago Bears NFC
vs New England Patriots AFC 46-10 Mike Ditka
/ Raymond Berry New Orleans, LA
XXI 1/25/87 N.Y. Giants NFC
vs Denver Broncos AFC 39-20 Bill Parcells
/ Dan Reeves Pasadena, CA
XXII 1/31/88 Washington Redskins NFC
vs Denver Broncos AFC 42-10 Joe Gibbs
/ Dan Reeves San Diego, CA
XXIII 1/22/89 San Francisco 49ers NFC
vs Cincinnati Bengals AFC 20-16 Bill Walsh
/ Sam Wyche Miami, FL
XXIV 1/28/90 San Francisco 49ers NFC
vs Denver Broncos AFC 55-10 George Seifert
/ Dan Reeves New Orleans, LA
XXV 1/27/91 N.Y. Giants NFC
vs Buffalo Bills AFC 20-19 Bill Parcells
/ Marv Levy Tampa, FL
XXVI 1/26/92 Washington Redskings NFC
vs Buffalo Bills AFC 37-24 Joe Gibbs
/ Marv Levy Minneapolis, MN
XXVII 1/31/93 Dallas Cowboys NFC
vs Buffalo Bills AFC 52-17 Jimmy Johnson
/ Marv Levy Pasadena, CA
XXVIII 1/30/94 Dallas Cowboys NFC
vs Buffalo Bills AFC 30-13 Jimmy Johnson
/ Marv Levy Atlanta, GA
XXIX 1/29/95 San Francisco 49ers NFC
vs San Diego Chargers AFC 49-26 George Seifert
/ Bobby Ross Miami FL
XXX 1/28/96 Dallas Cowboys NFC
vsPittsburgh Steelers AFC 27-17 Barry Switzer
/ Bill Cowher Tempe, AZ
XXXI 1/26/97 Green Bay Packers NFC
vs New England Patriots AFC 35-21 Mike Holmgren
/ Bill Parcells New Orleans, LA
XXXII 1/25/98 Denver Broncos AFC
vs Green Bay Packers NFC 31-24 Mike Shanahan
/ Mike Holmgren San Diego, CA
XXXIII 1/31/99 Denver Broncos AFC
vs Atlanta Falcons NFC 34-19 Mike Shanahan
/ Dan Reeves Miami, FL
XXXIV 1/30/00 St. Louis Rams NFC
vs Tennessee Titans AFC 23-16 Dick Vermeil
/ Jeff Fisher Atlanta, GA
XXXV 1/28/01 Baltimore Ravens AFC
vsN.Y. Giants NFC 34-7 Brian Billick
/ Jim Fassel Tampa, FL
XXXVI 2/3/02 New England Patriots AFC
vs St. Louis Rams NFC 20-17 Bill Belichick
/ Mike Martz New Orleans, LA
XXXVII 1/26/03 Tampa Bay Bucaneers NFC
vs Oakland Raiders AFC 48-21 Jon Gruden
/ Bill Callahan San Diego, CA
XXXVIII 2/1/04 New England Patriots AFC
vs Carolina Panthers NFC 32-29 Bill Belichick
/ John Fox Houston, Texas
XXXIX 2/6/05 New England Patriots AFC
vs Philadelphia Eagles NFC 24-21 Bill Belichick
/ Andy Reid Jacksonville, Florida
XL 2/5/06 Pittsburgh Steelers AFC
vs Seattle Seahawks NFC 21-10 Bill Cowher
/ Mike Holmgren Detroit, Michigan
XLI 2/4/07 Indianapolis Colts AFC
vs Chicago Bears NFC 29-17 Tony Dungy
/ Lovie Smith Miami, Florida
XLII 2/3/08 New York Giants NFC
vs New England Patriots AFC 17-14 Tom Coughlin
/ Bill Belichick

 

Did Mr. Coughlin succeed this year by being a tough guy?

Mr. Araton suggests the opposite.

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/02/05/sports/football/05araton.html?_r=1&oref=slogin

From the most violent and militaristic team sport comes the fact that you can go a long way without being an inflexible autocrat, the Bob Knight, who stepped down at Texas Tech on Monday.