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How do we feel about the Chron guys now?

Discussion in 'Journalism topics only' started by SF_Express, Feb 19, 2007.

  1. creamora

    creamora Member

    Both Fainaru-Wada and Williams have been making media appearances to promote the new paperback version of their book. They are now presenting "new" material and seem to be doing everything they can to generate sales and put money in their pockets. Some of this new material has already appeared in the Chronicle and on SI.com. I'm sure their book deal requires such promotional activity by both of them. Here's the question. Who is it that really controls their agenda? Is it the Chronicle? The book publisher? Do you really think that their true motive is the "public's right to know" at this point? Who cares about the increase in shoe size of Barry Bonds over the course of the last 20 years? Wow! From a 10.5 to a size 13 in twenty years! That means absolutely zero to me. Do these two guys present any any scientific references to support this incredible phenomenon they have discovered? The reality is that my own shoe size has increased from a 9 to a 10.5 over the last 20 years. I've also gained 35 lbs. Is this type of reporting supposed to be considered journalism? Are top notch reporters also trained to sensationalize like this as well? Is it possible that this type of writing may be the idea of the publisher? Is it not obvious that somebody intimately involved with these guys is trying to cash in on this story?

    creamora
     
  2. JayFarrar

    JayFarrar Well-Known Member

    I have like 10,000 words to write tonight, so I'm about to get bogged down but tell me this.
    A therapist is treating a patient and the patient tells the psychiatrist that he is going to kill someone and if the therapist believes it be to credible, he is required to break confidentiality and tell the police. But in that same scenario and that person called the paper and they did a story and made a promise of confidentiality, they have no obligation to tell the police, as a matter of fact the paper would make the argument that they are protecting their source and would have an ethical obligation not to tell the police the name.
    How does that fly?
    And do you not see the disparity in saying that things should be done in the open, but then say it doesn't apply to yourself or any working journalist?
     
  3. The Big Ragu

    The Big Ragu Moderator Staff Member

    creamora, It doesn't matter. Let them make money. There's nothing illegal or immoral about trying to make a buck. You can do journalism the right way AND want to enrich yourself. The two aren't mutually exclusive.
     
  4. Piotr Rasputin

    Piotr Rasputin New Member

    At this point, how can we completely trust ANYONE'S version of the story?

    And this comes from someone who, the more I think about it, the more I realize that in a world where the media was seen as quite complicit in the Steroid Era that begat McGwire and Sosa's Summer of Fraud, the Chronicle guys may have felt they simply couldn't sit on the story.
     
  5. creamora

    creamora Member

    Kindred,

    The Fainaru-Wada and Williams book came out in March of 2006. However, it took at least a year for them to write the book and don't forget that they received a substantial cash advance from the publisher in early 2005. So, they published their "selection" of Barry Bond's testimony in the Chronicle in December of 2004 and then immediately went to the book publishers and signed a book deal which included a nice cash advance. Once they had the advance money in the bank, they took a sabbatical from the Chronicle and began to write the book on a full time basis. Hmmm. Is this when the "public's right to know" may have taken a back seat? At what point did the publisher begin to contact the talk shows to book appearances so they could promote book sales? Who's the conductor of this orchestra?

    creamora
     
  6. creamora

    creamora Member

    Ragu,

    Are you saying that the two Chronicle reporters simply did journalism the "right way" and enriched themselves at the same time? Hmmm. So, you fully support and agree with all of the decisions that they have made? Just curious.

    creamora
     
  7. The Big Ragu

    The Big Ragu Moderator Staff Member

    You posed a question that made the implication that selling a book (or cashing in, as you put it) is an "agenda" that somehow renders their work wrong or dishonest. All I said is that you can do honest work AND try to enrich yourself. The two aren't mutually exclusive. And there is nothing illegal or immoral about trying to earn a buck for honest work.

    As to your question, I don't know enough about all of their decisions to know if I agree with them. I don't know of anything yet that makes me think they acted unethically, even though I have a few questions. What I do know for sure at this point is that they did a great deal of investigative reporting that brought to light a story that lots were chasing and couldn't nail down. The Chronicle reporters got the story, and apparently got it right. For me, there's nothing to disagree with about that.
     
  8. OK, so Ragu, here's my other pause in this.
    As soon as Ellerman accused the prosecutors of leaking the material, the two reporters KNEW that was a lie, knew that their colleagues were reporting a charge that was untrue, knew that they knew more than the other people at the Chronicle did, and they didn't report it. A big piece of that day's story -- in fact, the ONLY piece of that day's story -- was kept from the public because of promises made to a guy who these two people knew was telling a gross public lie.
    What public interest is served there?
     
  9. The Big Ragu

    The Big Ragu Moderator Staff Member

    FB, That doesn't serve the public interest... but people weren't worse off in the aggregate because of it. You have a problem with them not being able to report something they only knew about because they dealt with the guy in the first place. But if they had not dealt with him because of suspicions about his motives, we wouldn't have gotten the BALCO story OR any unethical shenanigans that Ellerman eventually resorted to.

    And in the scheme of things, Ellerman leaking grand jury testimony just isn't as big a deal as the Balco story. That's my judgment call, but I think I am spot on about that. I am just looking at things in relative terms.

    Also, all of that said, I strongly suspect there is more to the story than the conversation we're having. We don't know exactly what their dealings with Ellerman were, what they knew when, and where else they got info.

    A better, and much more relevant discussion than this one, which is now just dragging on, is why did the judge and prosecutor continue to target the reporters? One thing we learned from the Yahoo Ellerman story was that the disgruntled employee who squealed on Ellerman had gone to the FBI and said that Ellerman was the source of the leak. Yet the judge and prosecutor continued to lean on the reporters rather than turning to the FBI to investigate at that point and leaving the reporters be. It smacks of government trying to stifle the press, even if it wasn't 100 percent that insidious.

    Also, while there is no Federal shield law, there still is precedent in place that says that a Federal judge can protect a journalist's right to keep a source confidential when the value of the reporting outweighs the harm that might be caused by the disclosure. Was it REALLY that important that we know who leaked some grand jury testimony? What exactly was the value of knowing something that meaningless when you compare it to a free, unfettered press?
     
  10. The problem is that they allowed information that they knew was untrue -- the prosecutors are leaking -- to be reported. (If they allowed that information to be reported in the Chronicle, then a whole lot of somebodies should be fired.) That to me is a huge ethical lapse. Their stories about the BALCO trial were necessarily incomplete. That to me is a huge professional nonfeasance. And I think I'm reading you wrong, but are you arguing at the end of the above that what the two of them did was good because it forced Ellerman to do what he did?
     
  11. The Big Ragu

    The Big Ragu Moderator Staff Member

    You're definitely reading me wrong on the last point. What Ellerman did was illegal.

    I am saying it's a chicken and egg thing. You are saying there's a problem with them allowing information that was untrue--the prosecutors are leaking--to be reported knowing it was untrue, and that is a fireable offense. I am saying, 1) Do we know this for sure (about what they knew and under what circumstances)? and 2) Even if it is true, the only alternative was for them to have never dealt with Ellerman in the first place and promised confidentiality, in which case they still wouldn't have reported (or known about) any shenanigans Ellerman attempted AND they wouldn't have gotten the BALCO story.

    How does that alternative make anyone better off?
     
  12. creamora

    creamora Member

    The two Chroncile reporters obviously aided, abetted and had full knowledge of Ellerman's many illegal activities. That is not in dispute. Should Fainaru-Wada not be considered an accomplice to the crimes simply by not coming forward? Larry McCormack stated publically that the reason he came forward was because he didn't want to be charged with a crime. What was that crime that he feared being charged with? Having knowledge of Ellerman's criminal activity and not coming forward with the information. He did not want to be charged with being an accomplice. Don't forget that McCormack was a police officer for fifteen years. It seems clear to me that Mark Fainaru-Wada is an accomplice to the multiple felonly crimes committed by Troy Ellerman.
     
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