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How do we feel about the Chron guys now?

Discussion in 'Journalism topics only' started by SF_Express, Feb 19, 2007.

  1. Dave Kindred

    Dave Kindred Member

    For the life of me, I just don't get why anyone would obsess over Ellerman's leaks. They were inconsequential in the legal proceedings. They were the legal equivalent of a basketball player's flopping, a soccer midfielder's diving. They were mentioned in TWO SENTENCES of a 281-page motion to dismiss. They were fleas on a camel.

    Let's say you're a reporter who has invested a year's work to get a point where you now have the real story within reach, promised to you by a leaker. Let's say you even know the leaker will include the news of the leak in his motion to dismiss. But you also know, because history says so, that the news of the leak will have no more effect on the case than a flop in the first quarter would have on the NBA Finals.

    Given all that, what do you do?

    I say thank you very much and put the story in the paper.

    Even after the Chronicle stories based on the leaks were published, the judge made clear by her quick overrule of the motion to dismiss that not even the 281 pages of accusations of illegal activities by federal authorities, let alone the TWO SENTENCES on leaks, were reason to dismiss.
     
  2. The Big Ragu

    The Big Ragu Moderator Staff Member

    Dude, the whole "altruistic" line of interrogation has been one of the most ridiculous points of this thread. It's your strawman argument, created by you, which only you are arguing. Lance Williams never said or implied that he thought Ellerman was a boy scout or that he was "altruistic." Williams has never even acknowledged that Ellerman was even a source! And honestly if you want altruistic sources, I suggest you find a new career. There's no such thing. People are self-interested. It's an open secret about human nature that most other people have figured out.

    Everyone has their motivations for doing things. A defense attorney leaking testimony in defiance of a court order likely has an agenda. You don't need a Eureka moment to realize this. And a journalist would weigh those possible motivations relative to the info. Ellerman was sitting on some serious shit, to put it bluntly. This wasn't a case of a lazy journalist granting anonymity easily, when he was likely to get bullshit info or info he could have easily gotten elsewhere.

    You're actually implying that Williams was smart enough to expose details about BALCO and Bonds, but too stupid to realize the obvious. And you're arguing it as if it is a fact that you've established. It's why it's impossible to discuss this with you.

    You also have no clue what was going on if and when those reporters met with their sources. You don't know what judgments they had to make at the time. With regard to Ellerman, it could have been simple--his clients were about to plead guilty to felonies and they didn't want to take the fall while the athletes skated free. Does that meet your Monday Morning Quarterback criteria for good judgment? Get comfortable in the recliner and think about it.

    It could have also been sinister; what you've concluded about Ellerman gaming the system, with the reporters as co-conspirators. I've found it interesting all along that this is the conclusion you've jumped to without knowing details. But whatever. At the end of the day, I do know one thing for sure. If Ellerman was a source, he didn't steer them wrong. What does that say about the reporters' judgment?

    And just so you don't ridiculously paint me as a dupe or a Polyanna the way you have Williams on this thread, I'll openly say that it's my bet that even creamora's agenda on here isn't "altruistic." Imagine me having suspected that. Just because I am arguing journalism ethics with the guy doesn't mean I think he sincerely cares about such things without some other motivation driving his disparate arguments. At least I have openly said what my motivations are.
     
  3. cranberry

    cranberry Well-Known Member

    So you're saying that you believe the reporters calculated that allowing Ellerman to game the system was less important than getting the information in the Chronicle/GOS? I disagree with that. But I'd have less problem with if they were plain old naive and Ellerman duped them than if they suspended their skepticism because they didn't want to understand his motives because it might (should?) have caused them to reconsider.

    Kindred, the leaks were what set off a separate investigation by the Southern Calif. office and are the subject of Ellerman's confession. The leaks are also the central part of the discussion about the sourcing in journalism circles as much as you'd apparently like to believe this discussion only exists on SportsJournalists.com.

    Further, in your efforts to minimize the leaks you fail to consider the possibility that Ellerman could have been successful in his efforts to get the case disimissed. The reporters had no way of knowing that prior to making a deal with him.
     
  4. 21

    21 Well-Known Member

  5. Dave Kindred

    Dave Kindred Member

    Show me a case that was dismissed because of newspaper publicity. Change of venue, maybe, dismissal never. Even sportswriters know that.

    Gaming the system? With TWO SENTENCES in 10,000 words? TWO SENTENCES about leaks in 281 pages of virulent attack on the feds' methods of arrest and interrogation?

    Absolutely, the sourcing is a story in the real world. I just happen to believe that the story has been distorted. It has been shaped by federal authorities. They dictated Ellerman's plea agreement to make it seem plausible that such leaks could cause a dismissal. That's just not so. That is governmental spin.

    I'm ready to be wrong, Cran, I've been wrong plenty of times. But before I admit being wrong here, I again ask you to show me a case anywhere that was dismissed because of a leaks to a newspaper.
     
  6. Dave Kindred

    Dave Kindred Member

    Good God, I've become Little Ragu....
     
  7. The Big Ragu

    The Big Ragu Moderator Staff Member

    And this is a bad thing? I know there's someone, somewhere on this board who things I am a swell person.
     
  8. cranberry

    cranberry Well-Known Member

    Now we're getting somewhere. I agree that there's been a lot of spin and shaping of the story by federal authorities. But not just with Ellerman's confession. I also think the reporters ran with the spin when it was convenient and fit the story they wanted to write, such as when reporters (not just the Chronicle in this case) bought into the alleged Conte and Anderson confessions that Novitzky failed to record. He initiated a federal raid on Balco, crashing doors down with armed agents. But he sat down to get Conte's "confession" without a recording device. Same with Grimsely's "confession." (Someone needs to buy this guy a digital recorder, don't you think?) Of course, Novitzky was almost certainly a primary source for the book and many of the newspaper stories, too.

    Now, before I get attacked again, none of this is meant to suggest that the guys painted as bad guys weren't really bad guys. But I think the feds' highly questionable behavior throughout the case has gone unchallenged by the media. That's kind of sad.
     
  9. The "failure to bring a tape recorder" has been a bullshit law-enforcement tactic going back to, yes, the arrest and interrogation of Lee Harvey Oswald.
    And Dave, the Ellerman leaks may be tangential to his filing, but they are central to the topic under discussion, which is the use of this guy as a source.
     
  10. Dave Kindred

    Dave Kindred Member

    Your last sentence, Fenian, is my point. If the source's leaks are tangential to the filing, why do we obsess about the source's integrity and/or his motive in leaking? If the leaks are tangential to the filing, it makes little sense to say the reporters were "duped." Duped into exactly what? Adding tangential information? Since when is that a journalistic sin? The absolute worst-journalistic-sin scenario -- and I don't believe this for a minute -- is that the reporters agreed with a sleaze lawyer to create a tangential diversion in exchange for the biggest sports story of the year.
     
  11. creamora

    creamora Member

    An issue that has not been discussed here is that the two Chronicle "journalists" also became book "authors" using much of the same information.

    The reality with the "Game of Shadows" AUTHORS is that their works therein should not be viewed as that of "journalists".....they were collecting information to "sell books" and presumably were wetting the public's appetite for the pending book with periodic morsels in the newspaper.

    There is no such thing as a general "authors" privilege and what they produced in their book should be disaggregated from the articles that were published in the Chronicle for purposes of consideration as "journalists" works.

    Thoughts?

    creamora
     
  12. swenk

    swenk Member

    (Do we need special handstamps or wristbands to post on this thread? I feel like I should be slipping someone a $20 to get in here.)

    What do you mean by "general 'authors' privilege"? What privilege are they claiming?

    Anyone can sue a publisher and an author--but if you're suing for libel, and your name is Barry Bonds or Jason Giambi or Victor Conte, etc, you'd better be prepared to show some good old-fashioned reckless disregard for the truth, because that's the only chance you've got.
     
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