How do we feel about the Chron guys now?

Quite all right. If there's one thing I've always known about Mark Fainaru-Wada, it's his ability to inspire passion.

 

21 says, "we don't know the whole story, and perhaps never will."

It's my opinion that we will someday know a lot more than we know today regarding the two Chronicle reporter's motives as well as the motives of their sources. There are people who have information and it's certainly possible that they will come forward at some point. Don't forget that until recently, nobody here would had predicted that Troy Ellerman would have come forward.

Ragu says, "It's all so sad."

The halo around the heads of the two Chronicle reporters seems to have become dim over the last couple of months. That's not sad. It's simply the truth coming to light and sometimes the truth is not what you thought it was.

creamora

 

Ragu says, "address the message instead of just defaming the messengers.."

If the message from the two Chronicle reporters was a fair, balanced and accurate message, then I would readily accept what they have reported. However, it's my opinion that they have been "used" by Ellerman as well as the government and are basically "runners" and "promoters" for the message of those with a self-serving agenda. It's also my opinion that those on both sides who have spoon fed the Chronicle reporters over the last three and a half years have had little interest in promoting a fair, balanced and accurate message. It makes no sense not to question the motives of the messengers in this case.

creamora

 

It makes more sense to question the motives of those doing the spoon-feeding, including the heaping scoops you're shoving down our throats on this thread.

 

When I started presenting some of the tough questions here regarding the questionable motives of the two Chronicle reporters there were some interesting posts by 21.

21 says, "Or what? What if you don't get the answers to the questions you want asked and answered? They're not going to jail, they're not getting fired...what remedy are you looking for, other than to say 'these guys suck!'?

And, "Maybe this is naive, but I'm really baffled and disappointed by the absence of all the friends and colleagues who posted here in defense of the Chron reporters when it was about tshirts and courthouse rallies."

Clearly, 21, is a Chronicle fan and supporter.

21, I will continue to ask the tough questions regarding the motives and agenda of the two Chronicle reporters. You may want to put your seatbelt back on because the ride isn't over yet or I guess you could simply decide to get out of the car. The never ending BALCO story is only at half-time whether you like it or not. It seems like a glimpse of the "Or what?" is making you a bit nervous and defensive. It's my opinion that there are members of the media who still think that answers to some of the tough questions may be on the horizon. You never know, maybe the two Chronicle reporters will decide to step up and explain themselves at some point. It certainly doesn't look like the many questions are going to just go away anytime soon. Maybe you would like to see these issues swept under the rug, but I don't think that's likely to happen anytime soon.

Creamora

 

Yo. Cream. 21 isn't a fan of anything or anyone (related to this saga) other than the facts. I don't know all the facts--do you? Does Greg Anderson? He's not talking, as you said. Why not? Can you get him in here?

We all want the facts, Cream....if you have it, let's go...lots of folks reading this thread hanging on your every word. I do know more than I wish to discuss on this message board, as do you. When you want to spill your vast knowledge on these threads, I'll consider the same. Otherwise, I gotta believe you have more productive outlets for your information than an anonymous message board.

 

21 first says, "It makes more sense to question the motives of those doing the spoon-feeding, including the heaping scoops you're shoving down our throats on this thread."

21's very next post says, "lots of folks reading this thread hanging on your every word."

Now, which one is it? Am I shoving information down people's throats here or are they hanging on my every word? Those two statements seem to be incongruent. Are you simply disoriented and confused at this point? I'm posting information on an anonymous message board. People can ignore me or respond to the information I post and that is their choice. What's obvious is that I have rattled your cage for some reason.

21, then says, "When you want to spill your vast knowledge on these threads, I'll consider the same." Wow. Will you consider master card or visa in exchange for your vast knowledge instead?

Ragu says, "And of course, the book was better sourced than something Bob Woodward would put out. The evidence--yes, actual evidence, not vague allegations--painted a pretty vivid picture."

In short, you have no idea what you are talking about. As I have posted previously, if you follow up on the book's references you will find that there is no support provided whatsoever for a lot of the statements made. The references are simply bogus in many cases. I'm sorry, but the statement "a source familiar with the case said" appears on every other page of the book. Now, that's real evidence. And, Ragu says, "better sourced than something Bob Woodward would put out" Yeah right. I recommend that you go back and reread the book again.

Let's look at the timeline for just a moment. The book was originally scheduled for release in September of 2005. That's a fact that was widely reported. It generally takes at least a year after a publishing contract is signed before a book is released. Any veteran book author will tell you that. The book release date ended up being rescheduled in part because plea bargains were agreed upon in the case in July of 2005 and then scheduled to be approved by the judge in October of 2005. Thereafter, two of the defendants were scheduled to go to prison for short stays in December of 2005. The two were also scheduled to be released in February and March of 2006. In short, these events probably contributed to the book release date being rescheduled from September of 2005 until March of 2006. This date would allow the new information to be included in the book and it would also coincide with the start of the 2006 baseball season. However, once again, the original release date for the book was September of 2005. That means that the book contract was likely signed a year earlier and before the Barry Bonds grand jury transcript was leaked in December of 2004. This suggests that the two reporters were approaching publishers and auctioning their soon to be written book as early as the end of the summer in 2004? Do you think Ellerman might have known about this information when Fainaru-Wada was making his "half dozen" trips to Sacramento between June and November of 2004? Note that Larry McCormack recently stated that Ellerman flew back from Colorado to the Bay Area to meet with Fainaru-Wada and receive a copy the book when it was released in March of 2006? Hmmm.

As previously stated, I will continue to ask the tough questions and hopefully someone will come forward with further information about the Ellerman and Fainaru-Wada relationship that will enlighten us all.


creamora

 

So, Creamora, where does Novitzky fit in all of this? I've always been amazed at how well GOS fit his apparent view of the world. And he's been portrayed as such a hero. Coincidence?

 

Well, we already know how the book and the Chronicle portrays him. I'll bet the reality is at least a little bit closer to the way the March 2004 Playboy article portrayed him.

Well he did conveniently forget to bring a recording device to any of the interviews he conducted, wrote up and distributed with people like Conte, Anderson and Jason Grimsley.

But, anyway, I asked Creamora the question because I was interested in hearing his viewpoint rather than another one of your rants about how awful it is to be discussing how we feel about the Chron guys in a thread titled "How do we feel about the Chron guys now?"