If Jordan was the best player of the last 30 years, who was/is the second best?

Magic passed up many many many good shots over the course of his career to keep Kareem and James Worthy happy. Had he been so inclined, he would have found ample opportunity to make three more shots per night. He was simply more of a team player than Kobe.

Also as we are trying to make side-by-side comparisons of different eras, it is worth pointing out that in Magic's era the three-pointer around the NBA was a desperation afterthought, not an integral part of the offense. Although their percentages are similar, Kobe has averaged four attempts a game through his career; Magic's career average was 1.2. Kobe also played the first decade of his career with a shorter three-point line.

 

No need to hypothesize "if" Magic did this or "if" he did that. He did what he did, it's in the books. Kobe's still piling up more stats and I think when it's all done, his scoring ability will outweigh Magic's passing ability.

Both were big-game players, both won a lot (Kobe won more, but I won't act as if Magic wasn't a bona fide winner). If I'm forming a team today, I'm going to take the guy who was an unstoppable scorer over the guy who could pass better.

 

What the heck does individually skilled mean? Got more highlights on ESPN?

Uh, that's mighty gracious of you.

And Kobe has 5 titles (in 16 seasons) to Magic's 5 titles (in 12).

I'd like to see what calculator tells you that's "more."

 

Yeah, that's why I wanted to know FT pct. instead of looking at their 3-point percentages.

 

Individually skilled (since I'm the one who brought it up), I suppose it means if we're starting a one-on-one tournament I'm taking Kobe every time over Magic. Put four more players on the floor, though, and when it becomes a matter of seeing the team's best shot instead of your own best shot, I go with Magic.

 

much of what i was trying to say is conveyed more beautifully above by stoney.

 

Again, I'm not going to argue about what Magic could have done, because we already know what he did.

Don't forget, Kobe scored an average of 25.3 ppg during an era when teams average around 96 ppg, while Magic was scoring 19. 5 ppg during an era when teams averaged around 109 ppg. In other words, Kobe has already scored 10,000 points more than Magic during a time when it has been more difficult to score.

Teams today average around 80 field-goal attempts per game, and they averaged around 88 per game during Magic's day. So, even though there were more shots available, the fact is Magic didn't take them. He didn't score 6 points more per game. You want to say he could have scored more and maintained his FG%? I say he didn't do it and we can only judge him by what he did do. Averaging 19.5 ppg in 1985 would have been like averaging 14 points per game during Kobe's time.

 

Magic and then Bird. Those guys made their fellow players better by showing them how to be unselfish to make their teammates better while establishing a level of commitment to excellence that motivated their teammates to be better players. They also were big time shot makers at the end. Bird's duel in Gm. 7 with 'Nique was one of the best duels I've seen in the last 30 years.

Kobe is a great player but I surmise that his teammates never forget the diatribes about trading Bynum for Kidd and getting on Gasol. He's only in the conversation because he's the most current player.

As for Shaq, I still don't think he was ever a very good defensive player. He fouled more than altered shots.

I know that if I had to start a team, Kobe would be way down the list. Without Gasol's All-Star play, he does not win the last two championships.

 

My bad, I was thinking Magic had four. Kobe did have to win more playoff games to win his five titles, though, so there!

 

1) Magic - PCLL's points are dead-on. Could affect a game in so many ways without jacking up shot after shot after shot. Would like to think long-time Lakers fans might give the man his due even during the Shaquille/Kobe era. IMO, not even close ...

2) Shaquille O'Neal - Guys 7-foot-1 and more than 300 pounds that strong, yet that good on their feet, are kinda hard to find. Lousy free-throw shooter, but funny ... not too many dispute Wilt Chamberlain's greatness in spite of this. Force of Nature factor gives him nod over ...

3) Kobe Bryant - Obvious scoring ability and underrated perimeter defender.

4) Tim Duncan - Fundamental? Sure. Underrated? I think so. An all-time great? Other than coach Gregg Popovich, name a more important cog in the Spurs' machine. Yet this cog didn't make a fraction of the freaking squeal that Kobe did. Tempted to put him at No. 3 just to see how many Kobe apologists come out with torches and pitchforks ...

5) Hakeem Olajuwon - A more athletic, quicker, slimmed-down version of O'Neal. Doesn't have O'Neal's pure power, but thank his childhood of soccer in Nigeria for that footwork. Give him more stable management and teammates - aside from Clyde Drexler - and we'd be beefing about him being overrated (Hello, Scot Pollard).

6) Larry Bird
7) John Stockton
8 ) Karl Malone
9) Scottie Pippen
10) Charles Barkley

Just one insignificant opinion ... inviting flames ...

 

Although I chose Magic, I might point out the answer likely would be Bird if not for his back injuries.

The best decade any of these choices had was Larry Bird in the 80s (or, more specifically, from 80 until he went down with season ending injury early in the 88-89 season). But Larry's legacy is tainted by those last few seasons when he was hobbling around with a spine that had turned to mush and, unfortunately, many people's freshest memory of Larry is the hobbled version from those later seasons.

Magic and Bird were neck and neck in this discussion throughout the 80s, with Bird holding the slight advantage, it was only during those final seasons of their careers that Magic surpassed him. Magic remained awesome right up until his forced retirement, whereas Bird finished as a broken down shell of the player he'd once been.

 

Magic, Bird, Duncan, Shaq, Kobe and probably Hakeem are all pretty much in the same sub group to Jordan, and it's tough to tell a person they are wrong when they put Magic over Kobe or Kobe over Magic. These are all great, great players.

I do think Isiah Thomas needs to be in this list, though. Just a great big game player. He took the crown away from Bird and Magic and held off Jordan for a season or two.