Indefensible.

No, YOU consider it a government handout. Doesn't connect with most people's reality though

It's got nothing to do with "paying bills". It's about providing a government service--like education and roads.

Funny that you would like to deny all your fellow citizens something as basic as health care but apparently don't mind the billions of dollars wasted on Fredo's Clusterfuck in Iraq

I'm sorry, but what the hell has the constitution have to do with it?

 

I think OT must be employed by Blackwater. Eh, lame joke, but still since he doesn't seem to mind the abuse of money and lives...

 

I'm gonna ask this again, because you didn't answer last time. Do you believe people have a fundamental right to health care? Not health insurance, health care. To me, that falls under life, liberty and the pursuit. And whether you like it or not, more and more people, including those in the middle class, can't afford health insurance, for any number of reasons, not the least of which is that the cost of living continues to rise while take-home pay continues to stagnate.

 

OT, you seem to be having trouble grasping this whole idea. How much did the local public library bill you last month? Or the police or fire departments? What, you didn't get bills from them--well, what a goddamn lazy-ass freeloading bum you are--letting the Govt pay your bills like that.

See its the same concept in Canada and Europe with necessary health care. They're not paying their bills, they're providing a guaranteed service to their citizens.

 

OT doesn't seem to understand the whole concept of taxes and social services. Perhaps he should go to his local police or fire department and ask them what happens when taxes are lowered.

But hey, maybe he wants the fire department to bill him when they put out a fire at his house.

 

Health care is a service provided by someone else. You do not have any right to a service provided by someone else. That person has a right to charge for any service he/she provides. You do not have a right to make that person provide said service to you for free. Thus, it is not a right.

If you believe that health care is a right, wouldn't you also believe that shelter is also a right? Do you believe that the government should pay your mortgage?

If you believe health care is a right, wouldn't you also believe that being fed is a right? Do you believe the government should keep your cupboards and refrigerator stocked? And not just stocked with basics, but how about some filet mignon and maybe some lobster?

 

Hmmmm that actually made sense to me.

 

I understand completely the concept of taxes and social services. And "social services" are things that are equally available to any citizen. So any citizen is protected by the cops. Any citizen is protected by the fire department. Any person can go into the library and borrow a book. Any person can drive on a city, county, state or federal roadway. And any -- and every -- person benefits from our national defense system.

But giving government handouts to some people and not everyone? Now we've got a problem that would make the founding fathers roll over in their grave.

 

OK, so no. That's very telling.

Firefighters provide a service, too. So should you pay them to come if your house catches fire? Policemen provide a service. Should you pay them to take a report if you're burglarized?

And the filet mignon and lobster was cute. Completely irrelevant, but cute.

 

Where your false analogy falls way short -- as I point out to Beaker above -- is that the only government services we should be paying for are the services that are available to anyone and everyone.

We all pay for the cops; we all pay for the fire department; we all pay for libraries. And when we call the cops or the fire dept., they come for all of us. We can all go to the library. The government isn't paying my health care. Nor would I want it to. In fact, government intervention in the health care system is why costs are so out of whack to begin with. But it apparently is what you want more of.

 

Wow, the point flew so far over your head that it endangered this evening's American Airlines flight from LA to LaGuardia.

Firemen and policemen are paid salaries. Salaries provided by tax dollars. Tax dollars that provide services available to every citizen are tax dollars constitutionally spent.

 

Jeez, that's some really dim-witted reasoning. News Flash: EVERY SERVICE, whether private or public, is "provided by someone else". That factor has nothing to do with whether the service should be guaranteed to the public or left to the private marketplace.

And we don't all use our public services to the same degree. I've never used the fire department in my life but I spend the same amount as the dude who just had 3 trucks rushed to his house afire, I regularly check books out of the public library but spend no more for it than the guy who's never had a library card, etc. There's nothing unconstitutional or inherently unamerican about those social services being applied unevenly, and it wouldn't for healthcare either.