Israel and Leba-nin

Do you think the hizbollah rockets lobbed from the Lebanese border into Northern Israel make a disctintion between military and civilian targets?

And Hizbollah runs Syria and, to a lesser extent, Lebanon.

 

No, but I think there's a difference between terrorist attacks and state-sponsored retaliation. I have no problem with Israel targeting and eliminating Hezbollah militants. The international airport, attacked indiscriminately, sounds like a little much to me.

 

Boy, are you in for some fun when you read about Sabra and Shatila.

 

Like I said, I'm not pretending to know everything about this situation. I don't know much, but I'm interested and I'd like to know more.

 

Someone on here will correct me if I'm wrong, but...
When the British left Lebanon, they did so with a constiution that left the Christian minority in charge.
That led to a Civil War that -- in some form or another -- lasted until the early 1990s.

They invaded Israel during the early 1970s, but were turned back on the second day after Israel essentially called up its entire populace into military service.

Israel invaded Lebanon in the early 1980s, and in 1982, Israeli-backed Christian militias carried out massacres in Sabra and Shatila. Sharon was defense minister and commander on the ground at the time.

Several subsequent attempts have been made to try Sharon for war crimes for his part in the massacre, and I believe and Israeli commission of inquiry (or some such name) found him "responsible" and advised that he not hold public office.

Following the assasination of Rabin, and the first intifada, however, Israelis elected Sharon Prime Minister.

 

Of course, as Israel's closest ally, and primary guarantor, we're tied into whatever Israel does. Not saying right or wrong, just the way it is.

 

True enough.

Though we're tied in much more deeply with boots on the ground in Iraq.

But yeah, those are Abrahms tanks the Israelis are driving around in.

 

Hezbollah always sounded like a character from Bewitched.

Samantha: "Darrin, mother and I are going shopping this afternoon. Tabitha will stay with Aunt Hezbollah."

Then again, Zell Miller always sounded like a character from Green Acres.

 

So ... Are you saying that civilain massacres in Sabra and Shatila were a good idea? Or just that the Israelis have hit civilian targets before? I see the precedent -- but wasn't that precedent extraordinarily controversial in its day? And still to this day?

 

I don't think you can say the Israelis attacked the Beirut airport indiscriminantly. That would imply there wasn't much thought put into it before it happened, which I'm sure wasn't the case.

They bombed the airport for two reasons:

1. To stop Iran from flying in supplies to arm Hizbollah.

2. To prevent Hizbollah from flying the kidnapped soldier(s) out of the country.

The Israelis could also make the point that any airport that is being used as a supply point for the people who are shooting at their soldiers and civilians ceases to be a commercial airport and becomes a military target with a big fucking bull's eye on it.

 

What I'm saying, Head, is that you can't view the situation in the terms you're viewing it in.

You're hung up on a disctinction between a civilian and military target. I was trying to explain that, for better or worse, these two countries have been fighting each other since before they were countries, and neither side has a good track record with civilian casualties.

Much the same way, you're hung up on how involved Hizbollah is with the Lebanese government. Here's the answer: Hizbollah is the Lebanese government; Hizbollah has nothing to do with the Lebanese government. Has to do with who you're talking to and where you're standing. Lebanon has been ruled by warlords and militia groups since if became a nation. Hizbollah has a strong presence in the south, and routinely shells the military bases/ peaceful kibbutzim in the Golan Heights.

What matters, per your original question, is that this attack was far from outside the boundaries of the attacks these countries make on each other, whether you think it is right or wrong.


And, uh, no, I wasn't condoning the massacres at Sabra and Shatila. I was trying to emphasize that those massacres were common knowledge when the Israelis elected Sharon to lead them. Invading Lebanon is part of what the man was hired to do.

I remember a photo of a shoe-polished bed sheet that hung out on Ben Yehuda street in Jerusalem circa 2000-2001. It read "Ariel: All we are saying, is give war a chance."

 

Thank you. That's all I was asking for -- a detailed explanation. I feel like I understand things more than I did when I woke up this morning.

And you're right -- this is all that matters: