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Israel has a "right to defend itself" but...

Discussion in 'Anything goes' started by Billy Monday, Jul 22, 2006.

Page 5 of 12
  1. heyabbott

    heyabbott Well-Known Member

    and what did the people in Haifa do?
     
    heyabbott, Jul 22, 2006
    #49
  2. NotFromHavana

    NotFromHavana Member

    This, on the other hand...
     
    NotFromHavana, Jul 22, 2006
    #50
  3. Fenian_Bastard

    Fenian_Bastard Guest

    Fair question. Here's my answer.

    1) It would be somewaht different because a) Mexico isn't dead center in the most volatile part of the world, to say nothing of its relative strategic importance.
    2) We've never been shy of trampling all over exican sovereignity for the purposes of chasing "banditos" --- please consult, "Villa, Pancho," and "Vera cruz" for examples.
    3) I sure as hell wouldn't be bombing resort communities on the Panama border and demolishing the country of Mexico's entire civilian infrastructure. The Israelis blew the hell out of the port of Junieh. which is 15 Km NORTH of Beirut, and just happens to be the home of the Maronite Christian patriarch of Lebanon. Given your example, I wouldn;t be out there killing people in the hometown of the Archbishop of Yucatan.
     
    Fenian_Bastard, Jul 22, 2006
    #51
  4. FileNotFound

    FileNotFound Well-Known Member

    A good point, F_B, as usual. I just think we're past the point of asking Israel to "show restraint." Those who want to eliminate Israel have not shown restraint. I could be wrong, but I don't recall Israel having said it wants any nation "wiped off the map." That's the stated goal of many in the Middle East -- both states and the terrorist organizations who run with the quiet approval of the states. I'm not saying I agree with Israel's decision to push farther into Lebanon. I think Israel, at this point, could give a shit what I think, or what anybody who's living out of range of rockets from Hezbollah or Syria or Iran thinks.
     
    FileNotFound, Jul 22, 2006
    #52
  5. Songbird

    Songbird Well-Known Member

    One thing conspicuously absent is the madman's voice from Iran. He's behind this, but I've yet to read or hear anything in regards to him. When does Iran enter the conversation on a regular basis?
     
    Songbird, Jul 22, 2006
    #53
  6. Breakyoself

    Breakyoself Member

    Iran pres, if you want to call him that, is a punk bitch who will probably wait till he has more weapons before speaking up..or if the EU backs Israel, then he might too. he's a chicken-shit bitch who likes to incite shit and watch everyone else die. fucking pansy.
     
    Breakyoself, Jul 22, 2006
    #54
  7. beefncheddar

    beefncheddar Guest

    I'd say remains to be seen.
     
    beefncheddar, Jul 22, 2006
    #55
  8. Almost_Famous

    Almost_Famous Active Member

    I'm woefully unequipped to enter this conversation, as I have not been studying the situation, but ...

    I'm trying to get to the bottom of how this all started in the first place. While discussing the situation with friends this weekend, someone said when the jews left Europe, they fled to an area (Palestine) and basically booted the people who had been living there. Just kicked them out of their own homes.

    And so now, 3rd and 4th generation kids of those who had been displaced are the ones strapping bombs to their chest and blowing shit up.

    Not to start a firestorm .. but it there a definitive place to go to understand how/when this got started?
     
    Almost_Famous, Jul 22, 2006
    #56
  9. Songbird

    Songbird Well-Known Member

    Jews would say that land was theirs first and that they were booted long ago. They returned home, in their minds.
     
    Songbird, Jul 22, 2006
    #57
  10. The Big Ragu

    The Big Ragu Moderator Staff Member

    Came to this late. But many of the arguments I just read are ridiculous. "If Israel had tried to 'talk' to the Lebanese this could have been avoided?" You have got to be kidding. For one thing, you don't negotiate with terrorists (and the Lebanese government is controlled by Hezbollah). And Israel DID talk. They didn't start the aggression. But they did lay out their demands when Hezbollah started its shit--and the demands were entirely reasonable. They haven't been met.

    Hezbollah is a terrorist organization that has frequently expressed its desire--in words and in actions--to wipe Israel off the map. What do you want Israel to do? They have been very clear about what the expect. As long as a country right on their border is playing host to people kidnapping their citizens and lobbing rockets into their country, they have every right do whatever they deem necessary to stop it and create a buffer zone to protect themselves. I'm sorry. I appreciate the thoughtful wishes for peace. But sometimes you HAVE to fight. This rises to that level.

    In the last Lebanese election, Hezbollah won 23 out of 128 seats in the Parliament. So not only are the operating freely and openly in Lebanon and harboring several terrorists responsible for some very egregious and well-known terrorist acts against Israel and the U.S., but they control 18 percent of the government! The Lebanese are not innocent. The Lebanese people actually legitimized a terrorist organization. If Osama Bin Laden moves into your neighborhood, you don't throw a citywide celebration. That is essentially what the Lebanese have done with Hezbollah and now the country is paying for it.

    Whoever said they fear Al Quada more than Hezbollah has it wrong. They are both dangerous. But by and large, the Iranians and other factions of extremist Islam look at Bin Laden as an aloof kook. His tapes make him look like an out-of-touch mad profit, even to most of the muslim world. Hasan Nasrallah is much more dangerous, because he speaks clearly and in populist terms. The reason Hezbollah has been able to take over Lebanon is because they won hearts and minds by providing social services. They are waging a PR war in the arab world at the same time they have aggressive military intentions toward Israel. That makes them very dangerous.

    I strongly suspect Iran, in concert with Syria, is behind this. Iran was getting a ton of heat for its nuclear ambititions and thought it could use Hezbollah to create a smokescreen by starting the aggression. But they misjudged. The Israelis have no intention of fucking around, and really, I don't see how anyone can blame them.

    I hate seeing this carnage, and I am as scared shitless about where this is headed as anyone here. But I am also glad Israel is doing what it's doing. The Neville Chamberlain approach some of you would love to see would be much more disastrous.
     
    The Big Ragu, Jul 22, 2006
    #58
  11. Flying Headbutt

    Flying Headbutt Moderator Staff Member

    Israel knows that the hundreds of Hezbollah prisoners they have are legitimate terrorists. They had two of their soldiers kidnapped and the terrorists think that'd be an even trade to get them all back. If I'm Israel I start lopping off heads two at a time. Or I continue to pummell the shit out of the terrorists and their supporters in the area. Lets be honest, many of these civilians aren't entirely innocent. Many of them give some sort of support and approval even if they aren't firing rockets on Israeli neighborhoods.
     
    Flying Headbutt, Jul 22, 2006
    #59
  12. Billy Monday

    Billy Monday Member

    It's somewhat analagous to the U.S. attacking Afghanistan to go after Al Qaeda. It was widely considered justified because Afghanistan and the Taliban housed Al Qaeda.

    Maybe I'm ignorant of the extent of destruction over there, but I just don't remember the U.S. wiping out so many Afghan civilians and blowing Afghanistan back to the Stone Age to root out the Taliban.

    Maybe because Afghanistan already was still mired in the Stone Age?

    Even Bush seemed to initially cringe at the destruction being dealt to Lebanon, a country that was starting to crawl toward enlightenment and democracy, having recently ousted Syria's dominating presence.
     
    Billy Monday, Jul 22, 2006
    #60
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