Israeli Ground Troops Poised at Lebanon Border

I'm assuming you're referring to the long-ago Palestine from the European mandate days.

If not, then you'll get the same speech I had to give to CEs on a semi-monthly basis: There IS no Palestine. That's a big reason for the fighting.

 

My point exactly.

 

Well, that's not going to happen. Even when Israel made huge advances into Egypt, they didn't get to occupy all of that land.

 

Oh, bullshit.
And I'd say that, so far, the 10-1 civilian casualty differential is a better commercial for Hezbollah than Nic Robertson's trip to Beirut.

 

chuck,

i think most of your posts have been well-thought and insightful.

however, your posts about israel and "palestine" reveal the truth; why the war between jews and arabs will never end. you seem to be a reasonable person, someone who has read the koran and interprets it moderately -- not one of the extremists who has selfishly bastardized the religion.

yet, you refer to israel as "palestine" and when asked about it respond "I hope you guys are joking, but if you aren't, then that shows what Israel has done."

its proof of what israel supporters believe: that its not only the extremists who hate them, its the moderates as well. what, exactly, is the reason to assume israel will ever be allowed to exist peacefully, even if it handed over the gaza, the west bank, etc? there is none.

 

Yes, but that viewpoint assumes that everything Israel has done has been for the greater good of not only Jews, but the Muslim population it inherited as well. And that's simply not the case.

The Israelis haven't been angels anymore than the Palestinians have. If you look at it from a Palestinian standpoint, they are basically colonial subjects within Israel, and Israel has made all of the classic mistakes of a colonial power: marginalizing a significant majority, breaking promises to them (settlements), answering brutality with state-sponsored brutality. Given all of that, why would any Palestinian living in Israel -- Palestinians who strive to have their own country -- respect what the Israelis have done to them? What exactly has Israel done to make sure they aren't "hated" by their minority?

The Palestinian response is in the same historic vein of any ethnic group that feels it's been marginalized. Hell, the Palestinian response is not entirely unlike that of the Israelis themselves against the British in the 40s, the significant different being that the British had no taste for a colonial war and backed out. Palestinians are not altogether different from the Mau-Mau's in Kenya, the Vietnamese against the French, the East Timorians against the Indonesians, etc. Those groups used similar, and brutal, tactics in their time.

The difference is its been going on a LOT longer and we have more media access to see it. The longer time frame is a huge distinction between the examples I cited above and Israel-Palestine, in every case above except for perhaps East Timor, the colonial "power" was gone within a generation. Israel obviously isn't, nor should it be, gone, so a whole generation of Palestinians has grown up with the colonial mindset of radicalization. And obviously, that's dangerous.

And understand, I'm not condoning a god damn thing Muslim extremist groups do to keep this going. The tactics of suicide bombings and killings hurt their cause, slow down what fledgling peace process there's been, radicalize groups on both sides, and most important, are deplorable acts to other human beings.

 

Oh, I'm not calling the land Palestine. I'm just trying to say what Israel has done to it. The kind of shit that goes on in Israel is crazy. Some examples are these

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Muhammed_al-Dura
http://www.ccmep.org/2003_articles/Palestine/031603_photo_story.htm

I'm not trying to be an extremist or anything. I just want peace on Israel. The land is supposed to be called the holy land. It shouldn't be some kind of war zone. It should be a place were Jews,Christians,and Muslims come together and worship their religions in peace.

 

bubbler,

i dont assume the thesis you proposed in your opening sequence. i dont believe that, at all.

im just saying that there can never be peace because the arabs cant stand the jews and the feeling is mutual. its gone past who is responsible for what. they dont trust one another, they dont like one another, and thats the case for not only the hardliners, but the moderates, as well.

 

Except that, now, the Israeli military is blowing the hell out of Lebanese Christians in the north of the country, to say nothing of demolishing the capital of the country.
Does anyone suppose that they're going to internalize the notion that it's THEIR fault -- thanks John Bolton -- because of the fact that Kezbollah operated on the southern border?