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It's Over - Real Refs Returning. Or are they? *UPDATE* It's over.

Discussion in 'Sports and News' started by Moderator1, Sep 26, 2012.

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  1. IllMil

    IllMil Active Member

    Re: It's Over - Real Refs Returning

    OK, but it doesn't make any of it any less true.
     
    IllMil, Sep 26, 2012
    #25
  2. wicked

    wicked Well-Known Member

    Re: It's Over - Real Refs Returning

    Phil Luckett laughs at your rant.
     
    wicked, Sep 26, 2012
    #26
  3. shockey

    shockey Active Member

    Re: It's Over - Real Refs Returning

    nah, i think this is coming to an end just soon enough to keep most fans convinced this was all primarly a case of 'no blood, no foul.' we'll have to wait to see where seattle and green bay end up before recoiling in horror; this will never be seen as another 1987, which was truly a joke of a season.

    methinks packers fanbois will have to spend more time bitching about their o-line than losing in Week 3.
     
    shockey, Sep 26, 2012
    #27
  4. old_tony

    old_tony Well-Known Member

    Re: It's Over - Real Refs Returning

    Oh, they're accepting dismal performance in other areas, but I'll have to tell you about that in a different thread. ;)
     
    old_tony, Sep 26, 2012
    #28
  5. IllMil

    IllMil Active Member

    Re: It's Over - Real Refs Returning

    If nothing else, the whole things helps me comprehend the backlash from Muslims over a video about Muhammed.
     
    IllMil, Sep 26, 2012
    #29
  6. LongTimeListener

    LongTimeListener Well-Known Member

    Re: It's Over - Real Refs Returning

    Stop with the hagiography for your bestest buddy. We know you go way back. But he's a fucking stooge and now the whole world knows it. Fay Vincent quit when baseball tried to turn him into that. Roger Goodell just takes the money.
     
    LongTimeListener, Sep 26, 2012
    #30
  7. LongTimeListener

    LongTimeListener Well-Known Member

    Re: It's Over - Real Refs Returning

    I agree. This was the Tebow Story of 2012. Damn.
     
    LongTimeListener, Sep 26, 2012
    #31
  8. lantaur

    lantaur Well-Known Member

    Re: It's Over - Real Refs Returning

    Not to throw water on the celebration, but Peter King just tweeted:

    "I'm hearing NFLRA negotiator Scott Green has notified officials that a deal is not imminent. Stay tuned, obviously."
     
    lantaur, Sep 26, 2012
    #32
  9. The Big Ragu

    The Big Ragu Moderator Staff Member

    Re: It's Over - Real Refs Returning

    Regardless of whether it is settled yet. ... Come on, Goodell isn't some bystander in all of this. He's the guy out in front of it, and it was his office releasing statements assuring everyone that the replacement refs were doing a swell job.

    Goodell is also the one who has been continually out front on player safety, proving it was all bullshit all of the time. There were more cheap and late hits in the last two weeks than in a whole season of the regular refs.

    A commissioner is also supposed to have some force behind him, aside from satisfying the owners, and be the one who stands up for the integrity of the game. As this proved, either Goodell has no force behind him (which I don't believe) or he honestly didn't give a shit about the integrity of the game, because he played Russian Roulette with game outcomes until finally three weeks in, it all boiled over with the Monday night game.

    If as Shockey suggested, Goodell is just a puppet of the owners and a mere public face -- without any authority -- then yeah, poor Roger. But that is certainly not the image the league presents, that Goodell presents and at least in my personal experience, the reality of his position. He was not only out front on this, it never wouldn't have gotten as far as it did unless he was backing the owners, and not just carrying out their wishes. The NFL commissioner, whether it was Rozell, Tagliabue or Goodell, has had the standing to tell the owners to stand down when they were messing with the product.

    Their calculation (including Goodell) was that a lockout wouldn't harm the product. Fans wouldn't notice, and they would keep tuning in, and they could wait out the refs in a standoff. Their ratings and sales actually haven't suffered, but after Monday night, the PR hit they were taking must have gotten them to finally realize they were holding a line over a trifling amount of money.

    If Goodell were a bit smarter it would have never gotten to that -- because it really was a relatively trifling amount of money, and they gambled with an aspect of the game that they took way too for granted.

    As for what DD saying about collective bargaining not working, I don't know ever said that. But this is one of those rare cases in which collective bargaining apparently could work. The refs have a skill that isn't easily replaceable, as evidenced by the replacements, and that gave them the leverage when the wheels came off the bus due to how horrible the replacements were. Most workers that try to collectively bargain don't have that kind of leverage because they are easily replaced. In this case, unlike the athletes themselves, the refs were only so integral to the game. The league calculated that people would keep tuning in, even with poorly officiated games. And they almost calculated right. What they didn't count on was the fiasco things turned into and the PR hit they began to take. If Goodell isn't responsible for that -- he is the one who is supposed to get the owners to act smartly -- then who is?
     
    The Big Ragu, Sep 26, 2012
    #33
  10. shockey

    shockey Active Member

    Re: It's Over - Real Refs Returning

    sigh. believe anything you'd like. but your last sentence is hysterical... yup, you've nailed it, roger goodell just takes his money and runs. cat's outta the bag now! ::) ??? :eek:
     
    shockey, Sep 26, 2012
    #34
  11. qtlaw

    qtlaw Well-Known Member

    Re: It's Over - Real Refs Returning

    Goodell is a lawyer by training and I find it hard to believe he would not understand that he only acts in the best interests of those who appointed him and control his position, the 32 owners. Yes the commish can try to find some independence but on issues like this? Its the owners' call. They will ultimately approve it, not Goodell.

    On this, Goodell can be the front man, but let's not ignore the economic reality of this situation.

    As for the pension issue, from a purely financial situation, I can see why the league wanted to fundamentally change the pension system. Its not a matter of pure $$ this year, its a funding of the pension from this point going forward. Changing the system (which all defined benefit plans (guaranteed $$ per year of service) will confront in the future) is a huge issue because as we've seen in California, funding those guaranteed benefits is huge.
     
    qtlaw, Sep 26, 2012
    #35
  12. Double Down

    Double Down Well-Known Member

    Re: It's Over - Real Refs Returning

    A lot of workers have skills that aren't replaceable, it's just what we care more about football than we do, say, newspaper employees. But I laugh at the idea that the NFLRA should just bend over and get in line with the way the rest of the country is trending, and you see plenty of people advocating that position if you write anything pro-union on Twitter. No, that's the whole fucking point of unionizing your work force, so that you don't just have to bend over and do whatever the company says. Yeah, you take a real risk that your contributions aren't as valuable as you think they are, but this situation proved the referees risk was the right one (assuming they do get more than what the NFL was initially offering). Every time I see some media person say "You know, these referees need to understand too that nobody's offering pensions anymore, so maybe they need to get in line with the rest of the country" it makes me want to scream. Some idiot was saying to me on Twitter this week that the NFL would potentially be the next General Motors of in 20 years if the league caved on this pensions issue. Just because the rest of corporate America wants to dick over the American worker doesn't mean every American worker needs to lay back and try to enjoy it. And no, these referees aren't the perfect advocate fore the American worker considering they work one day a week and make six figure salaries, but they've clearly shown their skill is essential the last three weeks, however little work people believe they do. Small victories for those of us who believe labor still matters.
     
    Double Down, Sep 26, 2012
    #36
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