It's Over - Real Refs Returning. Or are they? UPDATE It's over.

Azrael · Sep 26, 2012

Re: It's Over - Real Refs Returning

qtlaw said:

Goodell is a lawyer by training and I find it hard to believe he would not understand that he only acts in the best interests of those who appointed him and control his position, the 32 owners. Yes the commish can try to find some independence but on issues like this? Its the owners' call. They will ultimately approve it, not Goodell.

On this, Goodell can be the front man, but let's not ignore the economic reality of this situation.

As for the pension issue, from a purely financial situation, I can see why the league wanted to fundamentally change the pension system. Its not a matter of pure $$ this year, its a funding of the pension from this point going forward. Changing the system (which all defined benefit plans (guaranteed $$ per year of service) will confront in the future) is a huge issue because as we've seen in California, funding those guaranteed benefits is huge.
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Funding benefits for millions of public employees is a huge issue.

Funding a pension for 119 employees of a $10 billion/year business is not.

YankeeFan · Sep 26, 2012

Re: It's Over - Real Refs Returning

What's been nice to see in this whole thing is how the entire labor community came together to support he refs.

I mean, nobody crossed their picket lines to attend the games these last several weeks.

shockey · Sep 26, 2012

Re: It's Over - Real Refs Returning

The Big Ragu said:

Regardless of whether it is settled yet. ... Come on, Goodell isn't some bystander in all of this. He's the guy out in front of it, and it was his office releasing statements assuring everyone that the replacement refs were doing a swell job.

Goodell is also the one who has been continually out front on player safety, proving it was all bullshit all of the time. There were more cheap and late hits in the last two weeks than in a whole season of the regular refs.

A commissioner is also supposed to have some force behind him, aside from satisfying the owners, and be the one who stands up for the integrity of the game. As this proved, either Goodell has no force behind him (which I don't believe) or he honestly didn't give a shit about the integrity of the game, because he played Russian Roulette with game outcomes until finally three weeks in, it all boiled over with the Monday night game.

If as Shockey suggested, Goodell is just a puppet of the owners and a mere public face -- without any authority -- then yeah, poor Roger. But that is certainly not the image the league presents, that Goodell presents and at least in my personal experience, the reality of his position. He was not only out front on this, it never wouldn't have gotten as far as it did unless he was backing the owners, and not just carrying out their wishes. The NFL commissioner, whether it was Rozell, Tagliabue or Goodell, has had the standing to tell the owners to stand down when they were messing with the product.

Their calculation (including Goodell) was that a lockout wouldn't harm the product. Fans wouldn't notice, and they would keep tuning in, and they could wait out the refs in a standoff. Their ratings and sales actually haven't suffered, but after Monday night, the PR hit they were taking must have gotten them to finally realize they were holding a line over a trifling amount of money.

If Goodell were a bit smarter it would have never gotten to that -- because it really was a relatively trifling amount of money, and they gambled with an aspect of the game that they took way too for granted
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i apologize, ragu. i obviously didnt make several of my poimts clear... every now and then these egocentric owners feel the need to flex their muscle and remind the 'little guys' like players and refs who's boss. they went nto this thing knowing precisely how much 'credibility' they were willing to 'gamble' away ad came nowhere near reaching the breaking point, no matter the level of hysteria. the owners havent lost a thing in terms of attendance/ratings but the wiser among them (how big a push roger gave them i have no idea) understood that monday night's game was the game-changer. heck, if this had gone done in week 1 the refs would've been back in week 2.

amraeder · Sep 26, 2012

Re: It's Over - Real Refs Returning

old_tony said:

YankeeFan said:

You have to love that the one area where Americans will not accept poor performing employees is NFL referees.
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Oh, they're accepting dismal performance in other areas, but I'll have to tell you about that in a different thread.
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Wait, why are we talking about my sex life?

IllMil · Sep 26, 2012

Re: It's Over - Real Refs Returning

YankeeFan said:

What's been nice to see in this whole thing is how the entire labor community came together to support he refs.

I mean, nobody crossed their picket lines to attend the games these last several weeks.
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Oversimplifying. If people actually did boycott games it would be crippling to local hotels, restaurants, bars etc., way more than just the league. The problem with trying to get people to boycott the NFL is that you're asking them to boycott culture which is basically impossible.

LongTimeListener · Sep 26, 2012

Re: It's Over - Real Refs Returning

IllMil said:

YankeeFan said:

What's been nice to see in this whole thing is how the entire labor community came together to support he refs.

I mean, nobody crossed their picket lines to attend the games these last several weeks.
Click to expand...

Oversimplifying. If people actually did boycott games it would be crippling to local hotels, restaurants, bars etc., way more than just the league. The problem with trying to get people to boycott the NFL is that you're asking them to boycott culture which is basically impossible.
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I would bet that if you polled people walking into stadiums in the first three weeks, you'd get less than 20 percent awareness of the lockout.

old_tony · Sep 26, 2012

Re: It's Over - Real Refs Returning

YankeeFan said:

What's been nice to see in this whole thing is how the entire labor community came together to support he refs.

I mean, nobody crossed their picket lines to attend the games these last several weeks.
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Battles of 1-percenters vs. 1-percenters aren't really that much of a mainstream media favorite.

Bubbler · Sep 26, 2012

Re: It's Over - Real Refs Returning

I think they settled because of my boycott. Fear the power of Bubbler!

Beaker · Sep 26, 2012

Re: It's Over - Real Refs Returning

According to King, Ed Hochuli has been leading the refs in weekly "training:"

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2012/writers/peter_king/09/26/referees-deal/index.html?eref=sihp&sct=hp_t11_a0

Stoney · Sep 26, 2012

Re: It's Over - Real Refs Returning

old_tony said:

YankeeFan said:

What's been nice to see in this whole thing is how the entire labor community came together to support he refs.

I mean, nobody crossed their picket lines to attend the games these last several weeks.
Click to expand...

Battles of 1-percenters vs. 1-percenters aren't really that much of a mainstream media favorite.
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I never thought of referees as 1 percenters.

IllMil · Sep 26, 2012

Re: It's Over - Real Refs Returning

shockey said:

IllMil said:

Too little too late for Green Bay and potentially others. The entire season has already been irreparably compromised. If Green Bay either misses the playoffs by a game or falls short of a higher seed by a game, or if Seattle makes it or finishes higher by a game, this abhorrent call (well three calls) directly changed countless possible outcomes. Not to mention other teams that could potentially get in or not get in depending on where they finish next to those two teams.
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nah, i think this is coming to an end just soon enough to keep most fans convinced this was all primarly a case of 'no blood, no foul.' we'll have to wait to see where seattle and green bay end up before recoiling in horror; this will never be seen as another 1987, which was truly a joke of a season.

methinks packers fanbois will have to spend more time bitching about their o-line than losing in Week 3.
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Maybe. But every team has flaws. The last two championship teams miss the playoffs if this happens to them. I may be a Packers fanboi but I don't think being pissed off about Monday night or acknowledging the consequences it could have is being all that unreasonable. The Packers are Giants were both a hair away from not even being playoff teams yet I don't think anyone could argue they were the best in the field during those postseasons.

Azrael · Sep 26, 2012

Re: It's Over - Real Refs Returning

What 'picket line?'

It's a lockout, not a strike.

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It's Over - Real Refs Returning. Or are they? UPDATE It's over.