It's that time of year: College coach carousel!

Move the goalposts much? Nobody ever said anything about "25 years", I acknowledge the program was in much better shape in the late 80s and early 90s. Rather the statement referenced the "consistent" (ie. generally, but not every year) state of the program for "nearly two decades."

And I'd say that's a fairly accurate statement. They've finished in the bottom half of the Big 10 far more than the first during that period, have only been to two tournaments in the last decade, and haven't had a significant tourney run in god knows how long. Yeah, they've had occasional up years (like 05 and 06 under Alford, a couple nice teams in the mid-90s), but in general they've been pretty damn mediocre or worse relative to their Big 10 brethren for quite some time now.

 

Someone said it had been 25 years since Olson left for Arizona and someone called the program "sub-mediocre"

I hear sub-mediocre, and I think of a team that rarely makes the tournament. Iowa has been down for a few years, but the Hawkeyes had about a 20-year stretch where they made the tournament about 60 percent of the time. That's only bad if you're Carolina, KU, UK or another ELITE program that Iowa has never been close to being.

 

Alford's star doesn't shine anywhere close to the way it once did in Indiana either. IU fans saw what happened at Iowa and they weren't impressed.

He used to be the de facto first mention for the IU both pre- and post-Knight. Now he barely rates a mention.

He's no appreciably better as a coach than Mike Davis is in my opinion. Davis just wasn't ready at the time he was given the IU job.

 

Davis wasn't a good philosophical fit at IU, in my opinion. It made no sense to me to try for a run-and-jump team that imported players from Alabama when you were in a state full of guys who brought something different to the table than what you were looking for.

He's a much better fit at UAB, in my opinion, because he's in a part of the country where he can put together the kind of team he likes.

 

Christ, you're still beating this drum? Brian, please stop making this simple-minded argument that appears to be based only upon some largely outdated stereotype that Indiana players are more your fundamentally sound/skilled but less athletic types and southern players more your runnin jumpin athlete types (and, btw, there also seems to be some Indiana=white South=black false racial-coding implied in your posts.).

Have you not seen the recruits that have been coming out of Indiana in recent years? Or the number of NBA prospects? The Indy metro area is about the deepest hotbed anywhere in the country these days and, hate to break it to you, the top Indy prospects sure as hell ain't your farmboy shooters, they're athletes on par physically with any anywhere.
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Davis' problem was not that the in-state talent didn't fit his supposed "run and jump" style, there was PLENTY available that did. Hell, Davis could've had one of the runningest jumpingest teams ever if he'd landed some of the Michael Conley, Greg Oden, Rodney Carney, George Hill, Courtney Lee, Jeff Teague, Sean May, Chris Thomas, Dominic James, Eric Gordon, etc. type athletes that were playing HS ball in the state during his IU tenure.

Davis IS a better fit at UAB, but because the South is where his personal network and recruiting connections are. Not because the type of players in one area better fits his supposed "style" than the other.

 

As an Iowa guy, I completely agree with the fans' inflated view of what the program should be. The best they should hope for is what Tom Davis did: He was there about 12 years and probably made the NCAAs 9 times, never lost a first-round NCAA game, made an Elite 8 and a couple Sweet 16s.

The problem came when Davis was forced out and Alford came in, talking about taking the program to "the next level". For Alford, that next level was 9 years, 3 NCAA trips, 1 first-round NCAA win and a first-round loss to a No. 14 seed. There were lots of transfers out, academic failings, plummeting attendance, and legal troubles - including the infamous Pierre Pierce case, where Alford let him back on the team after a redshirt year following his arrest for sexual assault (causing injury) of a female Iowa athlete. Of course, a couple years later he beat up his girlfriend and Alford had to give him the boot. The only thing that remained a constant was Alford's ego, which never let him take the blame for anything that went wrong with the program.

You could make the case that Alford going from Iowa to New Mexico shows there are things wrong with the Iowa program (and I won't argue that). But it goes both ways. I say it shows just as much about Alford that he went from his "home" Big Ten Conference to obscurity in the Mountain West, and none of the big boys (including his beloved Hoosiers) have any interest in bringing him back to the big time.

If he really was "very successful" everywhere else he's been, then shouldn't he be at a bigger and better job than New Mexico?

 

As Debbie Yow would say, whatever ... or come on.

 

Are we forgetting that he voluntarily jumped from the Big 10 to New Mexico? It was a choice, not something forced upon him. He no doubt would be at a higher profile program if he hadn't bumped into the unpleasantness that was Iowa, perhaps he's simply happy where he's at now.

His career path very much was on the express train upward until colliding with Iowa. Extremely successful at Div. 3 Manchester College, jumped straight to Division I Missouri St., where he was again extremely succcessful, jumped from there to Big 10 Iowa where he was not so successful and after eight years there voluntarily left for New Mexico, where he's once again been successful.

It appears the opportunities to move upward should be available again, although I'm not sure how interested he'd be now, he's highly paid and happy at New Mexico and the Iowa experience might've taught him how unpleasant it can be on the other side.

 

Southern players tend to be less fundamentally sound because the basketball culture here isn't as strong. If you haven't noticed, this is football country. I would bet if you go to an Indiana high school, then visit a comparable Alabama, Mississippi or Louisiana high school, chances are the Indiana school will have much more invested in basketball than the southern school in terms of coaching, facilities, financial investment, etc. I would bet the Indiana town has a better biddy ball system, a stronger rec program, etc., etc. That means Indiana players, in general, are going to be more advanced, collectively.

To me, it's as if Mike Sherman takes the Texas A&M job and says "I'm from New England. I'm going to bring in some New Englanders and New Yorkers instead of Texans." Meanwhile, Texas high schools have programs that have facilities and systems better and more sophisticated than a lot of New England colleges. Heck most of these Texas high schools will have 20 or more football coaches when you add up a varsity staff, a JV staff and freshman staff (often multiple JV and freshmen teams). These kids are going to be polished products even if some parts of Texas aren't as talent-laden as others.

Of course you embrace Texas football culture.

Davis didn't do that with Indiana, which to me is a better state at basketball than Texas is at football (Louisiana actually outproduces Texas in college and pro football players per capita). He insisted he could find better players in the South and lost guys like Oden, Conley, Rodney Carney and others. Why would you do that? Even if that southern player really is a little better than the player you are passing on, how much would it mean for a kid from Indianapolis to play for IU compared to a kid from Florida?

 

OK, fine, but could you please stop suggesting that Davis' playing style is the reason he recruited Southern players? That little theory you keep floating is sheer nonsense.

It IS true that there were definite issues with Davis chasing recruits down South when there were FAR better in-state prospects right under his nose that he was missing. But the reason for that had NOTHING to do with playing style, rather it was because Davis was from the South, all of his recruiting connections were down South, he was most comfortable there, and frankly, he had essentially NO prior experience recruiting anywhere else but the South before IU. I think Davis realized guys like Matta and Painter had him beat on the Indiana scene, so he thought he'd go to the region where he had the advantage. In retrospect that seems rather short-sighted and dumb, but it was what he knew best at the time.

I don't think Davis is a bad coach, UAB is a perfect fit for him and he's doing alright there, but he was WOEFULLY in over his head at IU. I'm not sure ANYBODY should ever start their head coaching career at a mega-program like IU, but Davis was particularly ill-prepared for the task when that job landed in his lap. And, thanks to the 02 Final Four run, IU ended up waiting six long years before finally making the inevitable change, and then compounded everything ten-fold by hiring Sampson.

Gonna take quite awhile to dig out from all that, and can't say Crean is the right man to lead the excavation.

 

<<OK, fine, but could you please stop suggesting that Davis' playing style is the reason he recruited southern players? That little theory you keep floating is sheer nonsense.>>

Is it really nonsense? If you are coaching in a state where you have a strong player development system, the common denominator among your top players is likely to be a high skill level. Some will be big, strong, fast and be able to run and jump. Others might simply be exceptionally skilled.

So if the common denominator is high skill, wouldn't you want to build on that?

Conversely, If you are in a state where the player development system is not as strong, the common denominator among your top players is more likely to be outstanding physical attributes because collectively they aren't going to be as developed because the player development system isn't as strong as other places.

So you tend to build to the common denominator among the best players you will likely have access to.

Check out this quote from Davis I lifted from the Commercial-Appeal. It's from before their opening-round game:

"It's a great fit," Davis said (of the UAB job). "No matter how good or bad you are, no matter where you are, a job is just like a system for a player. It has to fit you. A lot of players play in a certain system and they're not a good player. But when you put the player in a system that fits them, they perform better."

I highly doubt he's saying that simply because he has recruiting contacts in Alabama. He knows Alabama's basketball culture and he knows how to mold a team there.

I think when we look at jobs from a macro perspective in college sports, we tend to underestimate fit, knowing the culture, all that stuff.