It's Watch!... Neighborhood Watch. Not shoot.

Ace · Mar 21, 2012

Sigh.

Bob Cook · Mar 21, 2012

By the way, the Indiana bill came following two state Supreme Court rulings that said people could not attack police if they were entering your home illegally.

http://www.wibc.com/news/story.aspx?ID=1540967

While I can certainly see why people were upset about that, the law Daniels signed goes to the other extreme.

Azrael · Mar 21, 2012

What's most important moving forward is that we understand George Zimmerman as a lone nut, and what happened - while tragic [pause here for dramatic effect] - in no way reflects on bad law or poor policing or on the NRA or on issues of race or class or politics or politicians or the State of Florida or Jeb Bush.

YGBFKM · Mar 21, 2012

Guns don't kill people; average Joes kill people.

Beaker · Mar 21, 2012

That Indiana law has truly jumped the shark.

dreunc1542 · Mar 21, 2012

YGBFKM said:

Guns don't kill people; average Joes kill people.
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Us?

Ace · Mar 21, 2012

Azrael said:

What's most important moving forward is that we understand George Zimmerman as a lone nut, and what happened - while tragic [pause here for dramatic effect] - in no way reflects on bad law or poor policing or on the NRA or on issues of race or class or politics or politicians or the State of Florida or Jeb Bush.
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Yes. Plus, if you don't want to get shot, don't look suspicious. Simple as that.

Boom_70 · Mar 21, 2012

Ace said:

Azrael said:

What's most important moving forward is that we understand George Zimmerman as a lone nut, and what happened - while tragic [pause here for dramatic effect] - in no way reflects on bad law or poor policing or on the NRA or on issues of race or class or politics or politicians or the State of Florida or Jeb Bush.
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Yes. Plus, if you don't want to get shot, don't look suspicious. Simple as that.
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Never where a burka in public

Inky_Wretch · Mar 21, 2012

Boom_70 said:

Ace said:

Azrael said:

What's most important moving forward is that we understand George Zimmerman as a lone nut, and what happened - while tragic [pause here for dramatic effect] - in no way reflects on bad law or poor policing or on the NRA or on issues of race or class or politics or politicians or the State of Florida or Jeb Bush.
Click to expand...

Yes. Plus, if you don't want to get shot, don't look suspicious. Simple as that.
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Never where a burka in public
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Or be a black male teenager.

Baron Scicluna · Mar 21, 2012

Bob Cook said:

Meanwhile, Mitch Daniels in Indiana has just signed a bill that, basically, has just given every meth-lab runner, gang member and paranoiac license to kill any police officer, Census counter, postal worker and Girl Scout-cookie salesgirl who they reasonably believe is acting unlawfully when they step onto their property.

This is the bill summary:

Self defense. Specifies that a person may use reasonable force against any other person in certain circumstances. Provides that a person is justified in using reasonable force against a public servant if the person reasonably believes the force is necessary to: (1) protect the person or a third person from unlawful force; (2) prevent or terminate the public servant's unlawful entry into the person's dwelling; or (3) prevent or terminate the public servant's criminal interference with property lawfully in the person's possession. Specifies that a person is not justified in using force against a public servant if: (1) the person is committing or is escaping after the commission of a crime; (2) the person provokes action by the public servant with intent to injure the public servant; (3) the person has entered into combat with the public servant or is the initial aggressor; or (4) the person reasonably believes the public servant is acting lawfully or is engaged in the lawful execution of the public servant's official duties. Provides that a person is not justified in using deadly force against a public servant whom the person knows or reasonably should know is a public servant unless: (1) the person reasonably believes that the public servant is acting unlawfully or is not engaged in the execution of the public servant's official duties; and (2) the force is reasonably necessary to prevent serious bodily injury to the person or a third person.

This was in Mitch Daniels' statement on signing the bill:

http://indianalawblog.com/archives/2012/03/ind_law_gov_sig.html

Moreover, unless a person is convinced an officer is acting unlawfully, he cannot use any force of any kind. In the real world, there will almost never be a situation in which these extremely narrow conditions are met.

Doesnt Mitch Daniels remember that Linda Thompson is from Indiana? George Zimmerman was convinced Trayvon Martin was a threat. Presumably, Zimmermans reasoning doesnt fall under Floridas stand-your-ground law, but there he is, walking freely, without charges, nearly a month after the shooting. If I were a police department in Indiana, I would order extra Kevlar for the officers oh, wait, the budgets been cut, you cant afford it. Good luck not dying!
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So, in other words, a CPS worker could come to the door of an anti-government child abuser, and the child abuser could not only refuse to allow them in the home, but they can then shoot them because they believe the CPS worker has no right to enter their home.

Brilliant move Indiana.

Bob Cook · Mar 21, 2012

It's like Indiana's own Linda Thompson, instead of falling into obscurity after her wacky Waco videos, gained elected office. A LOT of Linda Thompsons, actually.

Baron Scicluna · Mar 21, 2012

Boom_70 said:

RickStain said:

Overaggressive police shooting someone who tried to kill them seconds after the deadly threat ended.

vs.

Chasing and confronting an innocent teenager, then using the confrontation as an excuse to shoot him.
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"who tried to kill them"

Your words and not consistent from any of the accounts of the incident.

Henry was told to move by cop in cruiser behind him. He complied and the shooting cop went cowboy and jumped on hood of car.

After Henry was shot the police pulled him out of the car, threw him on ground and handcuffed him.

There is a trauma center literally 5 minutes away from scene. Did the delay cost Henry his life?

Obviously there are differences in the 2 cases, but now the biggest difference is that the Florida case has hit the national main stream. For whatever reason the Henry case did not. Al Sharpton stayed mute, perhaps because he was negotiating his deal with MSNBC and did not want to ruin it. Politicians stayed mute perhaps because they knew it would be sure political death in mostly white Westchester County.

The cop gets named "Cop of Year by local PBA. For what?
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The stories said one cop ordered the driver to move. The driver didn't move after several orders, so the cop got out of his car, told him to move.

The stories didn't say the second cop jumped on the hood, only that he was on it.

The driver was drunk, one of the men in the car said the windows were fogged up. Odds are, the driver didn't see the cop, hit him, cop flies on the hood, starts shooting.

And the cops handcuffed him because that's SOP when you arrest someone. You make sure they can't do any more harm. Just because he's wounded doesn't mean he's still not dangerous.

The call for the ambulance should have been done sooner. But, I'd imagine, in the chaos which witnesses described, the cops were just trying to take care of their guy who got hurt and get the situation under control.

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