Jimmy Rollins: HOF?

If we can't trust those 20/20 eyes of writers from the 70's and 80's what can we trust? A lot of the same writers that have shown themselves to be fools over the last 15 years.

The same writers who thought wins and RBI were great measures to judge players on.

 

The number of fools in any trade remains remarkably constant generation through generation. When I had my Hall vote, I voted for Raines annually. Grich was off the ballot before I got a chance, but I would not have voted for him. JC is approaching the ultimate ideal of some baseball followers here -- making watching the games irrelevant.

 

OPS-plus isn't "random." It isn't perfect, either. But it is thumbnail measure of a hitter's ability to: (1) Get on base; and (2) Hit for extra bases. The two most important components of scoring runs in baseball. OPS-plus normalizes it across eras.

But you're right. It's more important to ask Murray Chass and Roger Angell about their 40-year-old memories.

 

Arrogance is not the sole province of old baseball writers, one sees.

 

He doesn't pass my eye test. I didn't see him play in person

 

Perhaps.

But knowledge in given areas increases over time, building atop what was done before.

Doctors used to bleed patients to cure diseases. They were wrong. They didn't know any better yet.

 

Not even close to what I said. But I'm glad you were able to watch every game back in the day.

 

Bobby Grich got on base and hit for extra bases at a 25 percent better rate than other players in his era.

I would like to know what people's eyes saw that outweighs this fact. Did umpires call him safe many times when he should have been called out?

 

Lou Whitaker had very comparable numbers to Grich (slightly lower OPS+, slightly higher WAR), including the fact both received less than 3% of the vote in their initial HOF eligible year. Unconscionable, and I'm an old guy who likes a combo of eye test (for those I watched) and statistics.

 

It's very tiresome to hear arguments being made for non-superstars regarding the Hall of Fame. And that includes guys who were superstars for about three seasons during their prime.

Stop cheapening Cooperstown. Although that threshold may already have been passed.

 

What is the argument against Bobby Grich?

(I'm like you, though. I miss the days when even a Ross Youngs had to sweat it out for a few years.)

 

Eye test